Demons and the believer

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

The contrast in kingdoms that I see in the Bible is the kingdom of God and the kingdom of Satan who is the ruler of this world. A kingdom of light versus a kingdom of darkness.
Secular powers are unwittingly the puppets of Satan who has deceived and continues to deceive the whole world. Our war isn't with secular governments that are ruled by men. Your directing your energy against the wrong adversary.

I am directing my energy against "imaginations and thoughts" that need to be cast down, including this idea that would have the church worrying about invisible spooks behind every bush while your children are taught Babylonian perversions and how to apostasize when they hit 18.

Who was Jesus constantly "wrestling" with? Demons? Or rabbis and scribes? Who kept throwing Peter in jail? Demons? Or devils in long robes and longer tzitzits? Who kept opposing Paul and his ministry team? Demons? Or rabbins and Romans, priests of Judea and priests of Ephesus?

The conflict is outlined in Dan 2, no fallen angel daevas required.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Esaias

I am directing my energy against "imaginations and thoughts" that need to be cast down, including this idea that would have the church worrying about invisible spooks behind every bush while your children are taught Babylonian perversions and how to apostasize when they hit 18.

Who was Jesus constantly "wrestling" with? Demons? Or rabbis and scribes? Who kept throwing Peter in jail? Demons? Or devils in long robes and longer tzitzits? Who kept opposing Paul and his ministry team? Demons? Or rabbins and Romans, priests of Judea and priests of Ephesus?

The conflict is outlined in Dan 2, no fallen angel daevas required.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Did you read the portion I quoted from Boyd's book 'God at War'? There are many scriptures cited in that long quote that would answer your question.


What does Paul have to clarify when he is talking about entities that are not "flesh and blood". Paul cast out demons from people as did the rest of the apostles. It was a daily occurrence when Jesus walked on the earth. The people of that day understood there were unseen spirits, good and evil.

Context is key whether the writer is referring to earthly rulers and governments or spiritual rulers.

Paul said submit to powers and principalities with no elaboration on " no, I don't mean Satan's demons, I mean civil authorities". You are proceeding under the assumption that powers and principalities are demonic entities, when you read that phrase you assume FIRST it means a certain thing, and only when a verse is pointed out that can't possibly support that meaning you equivocate the definition. I mean that you say "oh, but there it's totally different."

YET, the meaning of the term as demonic hierarchies never did get established. There is no verse which teaches a demonic hierarchy called "powers and principalities". It's just tossed out there by the apostle as if everyone knew what it meant. So what does it mean? Exactly what it says: authorities, and it is used consistently by the apostle.

I already explained this previously. As for Boyd, I'm not debating him, he's not here. And that's all I'll say about him.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Esaias

I hear these are on sale. Better hurry, won't last!

lol

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Esaias

I am directing my energy against "imaginations and thoughts" that need to be cast down, including this idea that would have the church worrying about invisible spooks behind every bush while your children are taught Babylonian perversions and how to apostasize when they hit 18.

Who was Jesus constantly "wrestling" with? Demons? Or rabbis and scribes? Who kept throwing Peter in jail? Demons? Or devils in long robes and longer tzitzits? Who kept opposing Paul and his ministry team? Demons? Or rabbins and Romans, priests of Judea and priests of Ephesus?

The conflict is outlined in Dan 2, no fallen angel daevas required.

Those "imaginations and thoughts" that need to be cast down come to our minds by the influence of demons. If we let them fester, we end up sinning as Ananias and his wife did. The devil doesn't make us sin but influences us just as he did so deftly with Eve in the garden.

Jesus told the religious Jews that their father was the devil and the works of their father they would do. Jesus was NOT saying that their biological father was the devil but that they were influenced by the devil albeit unwittingly.

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Satan entered into Judas and influenced his decision to betray Jesus. The Jewish leaders were doing the works of their "father the devil" when they brought Jesus to Pilate to be crucified. etc, etc.

I have no desire to bring this discussion into the old testament.

[Evang.Benincasa]

The Greek word κοσμοκράτορας found in Ephesians 6:12 means a king, a president. Like Alexander the Great, Nero, Nebuchadnezzar.

This is what is it saying in Greek

For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world's rulers of this darkness, and against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places. Those heavenly places are where the king of Babylon reached as a tree Daniel 4:11. How he fell from "heaven" Isaiah 14:12-14. What people are having a hard time with is new information which is outside the spectrum of what they once were told about the verse.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Those "imaginations and thoughts" that need to be cast down come to our minds by the influence of demons. If we let them fester, we end up sinning as Ananias and his wife did. The devil doesn't make us sin but influences us just as he did so deftly with Eve in the garden.

Mark 7:15 and James 1:14-15 refute this notion without remedy.

Jesus told the religious Jews that their father was the devil and the works of their father they would do. Jesus was saying that their biological father was the devil but that they were influenced by the devil albeit unwittingly.

I am sure you did not mean to suggest Jesus affirmed they were biologically descended from Satan? Yes, their father was the devil, because they acted like him. What devil is He speaking of? Since the Bible term "devil" is a generic word applied to many things, the question must be asked and answered. The verse you supplied suggests the devil spoken of here is Cain, the first murderer, the murder from "the beginning" (Genesis).

It is not the devil of catholic mythology, though, for that devil was supposedly in the beginning the heavenly choir master and a wonderful angel, not a murderer. So, as usual, pagan myths refute themselves because they are contradictory, just like what was shown: n the Enoch thread re: fallen angels.

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Satan entered into Judas and influenced his decision to betray Jesus.

Judas was already a devil - John 6:70. Satan entering Judas is not about a demon possessing him or influencing him. Again, you need to think of Satan as the BIBLE describes the term, not as the RCC Catechism defines it.

The Jewish leaders were doing the works of their "father the devil" when they brought Jesus to Pilate to be crucified. etc, etc.

Yes, and thus 1 Cor 2:8 identifies THEM as the "princes of this world", not an invisible hierarchy of demons.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

I have no desire to bring this discussion into the old testament.

I have great desire to do just that, because it will give the background information necessary to understand what the NT terms and usages mean.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

The Greek word κοσμοκράτορας found in Ephesians 6:12 means a king, a president. Like Alexander the Great, Nero, Nebuchadnezzar.

This is what is it saying in Greek

For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world's rulers of this darkness, and against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places. Those heavenly places are where the king of Babylon reached as a tree Daniel 4:11. How he fell from "heaven" Isaiah 14:12-14. What people are having a hard time with is new information which is outside the spectrum of what they once were told about the verse.

[1ofthechosen]

So 2 Corinthians 4:4 NLT Says "4 Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don’t believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don’t understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God"

Is this true or not and how can your rectify what your claiming and make it jazz with this? Not explain something else entirely but it all has to fit together, so give a teaching on this.