hes been out of his league for a while, get on over to move on dot org,and find your true bros, lol,dt just kiddin
lol
Thanks for the light heartedness DT. God bless you.
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"For I know the plans I have for you, declares the LORD, plans for wholeness and not for evil, to give you a future and a hope." Jeremiah 29:11 (English Standard Version)
Please present violence advocated or presented by example among those living under the New Covenant. Please commit to not posting until you do. That will settle the issue.
Again, I've mentioned that an argument from silence is no argument. Plus, I can list many places where the apostles quoted directly from the case laws of the old as still binding. I assume the the provisions of the Old are still in force until changed in the New. I don't make the leap to assume discontinuation if they are not mentioned. There is no conflict between the covenants. Same God with the one plan of redemption.
__________________ "I have had a perfectly wonderful evening, but this wasn't it."
If he embarasses me it will be by personal attack, for I am a a flawed individual. However, I suspect that it will not be through discussion of the biblical view point.
Ok. I know I said I wouldn't post on it anymore, but I will clarify. What I meant when I said he would embarass you is that his level of posting, when he puts his mind to it, is much higher and more advanced than anything I have ever read from you. He's smarter than you are, better with words than you are, and knows much more about what you believe as an apostolic than you do; never mind what he knows about what he believes. In a nutshell, he can post circles around you without even trying. I didn't want to have to put it to you this way, but well, I did.
Again, I've mentioned that an argument from silence is no argument.
This isn't an argument from silence. I can present multiple examples of Christians refusing to retaliate from the most violent of physical attacks, admonitions against retaliation, commands to bless one’s enemy in the hopes of winning their souls, and even admonitions to pay one’s taxes and obey the laws of pagan emperors…who were the most fearsome opponents of Christianity. Nowhere does Jesus, Paul, or any other apostle advocate violence, revolution, war, or lethal force, nowhere. In light of what we do see we can conclude a solid way of peace prescribed for the believer, who is not of this world, else would we fight. We are called to a higher standard of peace and holy conduct than even Old Testament Israel.
Present your case!
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Plus, I can list many places where the apostles quoted directly from the case laws of the old as still binding.
Moral laws, yes, national and ceremonial no.
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I assume the the provisions of the Old are still in force until changed in the New.
Those eternal provisions of the Old are laying in waiting until that glorious day when Christ returns and assumes the kingdom, bringing his dominion upon the earth for 1000 years. In that age those promises will be realized. Until then we are in the “times of the gentiles” and the earth has been experiencing tribulation that will culminate in great tribulation prior to the Lord’s glorious appearing. The provisions of the Old lay in waiting…but are not in force presently. For example….we don’t execute children who curse their parents. Nor do we execute adulteresses or other immoral individuals, though they are worthy of death. God is rich in both patience and mercy offering this period of grace seeing that he is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.
Christ’s Kingdom is not of this world…it will continue to be a spiritual kingdom until he physically returns. Then he will judge the nations and establish the kingdom.
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I don't make the leap to assume discontinuation if they are not mentioned. There is no conflict between the covenants. Same God with the one plan of redemption.
Each covenant is a contract. There are specific parties signed and bound. The Old Covenant with Israel was broken when they rejected their King. Now there is a New Covenant applied through Acts 2:38 and even Israel must obey it to be saved.
Give me examples of New Testament Saints engaged in acts of physical violence, retaliation, war, or using lethal force. Do you have these examples? Yes or no?
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"For I know the plans I have for you, declares the LORD, plans for wholeness and not for evil, to give you a future and a hope." Jeremiah 29:11 (English Standard Version)
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"For I know the plans I have for you, declares the LORD, plans for wholeness and not for evil, to give you a future and a hope." Jeremiah 29:11 (English Standard Version)
If, according to you, the Trinity is the true God, what does the Old Testament Law require you to do to those of us who prophesy in the name of what you believe is a false God(Oneness) if it is still in force?
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"For I know the plans I have for you, declares the LORD, plans for wholeness and not for evil, to give you a future and a hope." Jeremiah 29:11 (English Standard Version)
The Bible affirms the sanctity of human life in strong
terms. When one person kills another he violates God’s
law and destroys God’s image-creature (Genesis 9:5-6).
Furthermore, the killer destroys the victim’s future potential,
including the possibility of future salvation in the
case of an unsaved person.
The Law prohibited all murder (Exodus 20:13), and
the New Testament affirms this teaching (Matthew
15:18-20; Galatians 5:19-21; James 2:11; I Peter 4:15).
By extension this forbids violence and aggression. John
the Baptist told repentant soldiers, “Do violence to no
man” (Luke 3:14). He who hates is a murderer and does
not have eternal life (I John 3:14-15).
Jesus went beyond the Law in teaching nonviolence
and no retaliation. “Ye have heard that it hath been said,
An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: but I say unto
you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite
thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. . . . Ye
have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy
neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love
your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them
that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use
you, and persecute you” (Matthew 5:38-39, 43-44). (See
also Romans 12:19; I Peter 3:9.)
The Jerusalem Council admonished Gentile Christians
to abstain from blood (Acts 15:29). If Acts 15 teaches us
not to eat blood because it symbolizes life (Leviticus
17:10-11), surely it also teaches us to abstain from actual
bloodshed (taking of human life).
The New Testament thus leads us to reject the killing
of human beings under all circumstances, even in warfare,
self-defense, and suicide. In addition, the Bible indicates
that God considers the child in the womb to be a
human life; therefore we reject abortion since it is a form
of murder.” – David K. Bernard, Practical Holiness
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In many ways our society is losing its sense of the
sanctity of human life. Abortion is now commonplace.
People have smothered or starved aborted babies who
continued to live outside the womb. Warfare is endemic
to our planet. Violence is a favorite topic for television
and movies, and audiences love it. The news media routinely
portray brutal scenes of war, terrorism, crime, and
accidents. Many theologians advocate violent rebellion
and terrorism as valid methods of achieving greater social
justice and democracy. Most countries use murder to
quell political dissent and accept aggressive war as part
of international politics. In general, our world accepts
violence and bloodshed as legitimate means to publicize
issues, resolve differences of opinion, and assert rights.
Recently there have been many specific indications of
the decreasing value society places on human life. In
Bloomington, Indiana, “a baby with Down’s syndrome
was starved to death in a hospital after doctors, parents,
and a state court agreed that no treatment should be
given.”26 A victim of cerebral palsy sued to force health
care workers to let her commit suicide by starvation; fortunately,
the court refused her. A U.S. governor discussed
the duty of the elderly to die and relieve the next generation
of the costly burden of care. The World Council of
Churches has provided financial support for “liberation”
armies committed to violence. A Nobel prize winner advocates
that infants not be declared human until several
days after birth so that those with defects can be legally
killed. The Humanist Manifesto recognizes the right to
commit suicide.
We wonder how the Nazis could have murdered six
million Jews and how a nation of civilized, “Christian”
people could have allowed such crimes to occur. Yet by
desensitizing ourselves to violence and killing, we are
conditioning ourselves to the point where our society
could accept such crimes on a similar scale. Already we
have accepted the killing of more than one million unborn
babies per year. Will this philosophy spread to justify
infanticide, euthanasia (“mercy killing”), killing of the
handicapped, killing of the aged, or assisting someone
who wishes to commit suicide? Where will it end?
What would the man Jesus do? Would Christ perform
an abortion? Would Christ cut up an unborn child and
throw it in a trash can? Would Christ shoot to kill a mugger?
Would Christ be a sniper in the army? Would Christ
plant a minefield? Would Christ flip the switch on an electric
chair? Would Christ be a member of a firing squad? If
He would not, then neither can we. The Christian solution
is to affirm the sanctity of the individual human life to
such an extent that we will not deliberately take a human
life for any reason. – David K. Bernard, Practical Holiness
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"For I know the plans I have for you, declares the LORD, plans for wholeness and not for evil, to give you a future and a hope." Jeremiah 29:11 (English Standard Version)
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