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07-30-2008, 10:38 AM
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Not wrestling w/ flesh n blood
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,015
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Re: My Signature Diagram
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Originally Posted by nahkoe
So did the "I Am" of the Old Testament pass away?
Just curious...that's what this looks like to me. I'm always puzzled by statements like this. "I Am" is eternal.
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No. The almighty (I am), is eternal. Jesus was 100% man and 100% God. God, of course, never died.
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There is a conspiracy of silence in the land.
The gloves are off.
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07-30-2008, 10:38 AM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 675
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Re: My Signature Diagram
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Originally Posted by mizpeh
Those "manmade constructs" are attempts at explaining the word of God. Do you believe in one absolute truth of who and what God is?
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Yes, I believe in absolute truth, but do not believe that any human is capable of having/obtaining/understanding absolute truth, including those in the ministry.
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07-30-2008, 10:39 AM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,197
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Re: My Signature Diagram
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Originally Posted by mizpeh
As Timmy brought out the word, God, is used in different ways, with different meanings attached especially, IMO, by Trinitarians. So the definition of the word, God, in your diagram may be interpreted differently by those of a different theological persuasion.
Here is an example of what I mean. On another forum, I asked a Trinitarian to define the word, God, in each of these phrases (his answers are in bold):
How do you interpret the word, God, in these 8 examples?
1. Jesus is God. Ontologically.
2. God is a Trinity. Relationally.
3. The God of our Fathers. God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit).
4. And the Word was God. Ontologically.
5. God the Father One of the persons within God
6. Being in the form of God. Ontologically.
7. In the beginning, God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit).
8. 2Cor5: 18-19 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation ....I'd say the Father.
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This is most interesting.
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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07-30-2008, 10:40 AM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 10,749
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Re: My Signature Diagram
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Originally Posted by Brad Murphy
Yes, I believe in absolute truth, but do not believe that any human is capable of having/obtaining/understanding absolute truth, including those in the ministry.
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I think God wants us to know Him and to worship Him in truth...the truth of who and what He is. 
And I'm not saying we can know EVERYTHING about God.
__________________
His banner over me is LOVE....  My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?
To be a servant of God, it will cost us our total commitment to God, and God alone. His burden must be our burden... Sis Alvear
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07-30-2008, 10:40 AM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,197
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Re: My Signature Diagram
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmy
The diagram makes six statements. Which ones do you disagree with?
1. The Father is not The Son
2. The Father is not The Holy Spirit
3. The Holy Spirit is not The Son
4. The Father is God
5. God is The Son
6. God is The Holy Spirit
I'm going to get all mathematical on you again, but I have to point out that "God is The Son" is equivalent to "The Son is God", if "is" is commutative.  And again, this is true if "God" is a name or proper noun, not an adjective (getting all grammatical again!). I used the orderings I did because that's how the diagram shows them. |
I can agree with all six.
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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07-30-2008, 10:42 AM
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Not wrestling w/ flesh n blood
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,015
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Re: My Signature Diagram
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Originally Posted by deltaguitar
Do you have scripture for this statement?
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John 8:24..I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
__________________
There is a conspiracy of silence in the land.
The gloves are off.
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07-30-2008, 10:44 AM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,197
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Re: My Signature Diagram
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Originally Posted by mizpeh
Timothy, I'm impressed!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmy
Stephen's not. He doesn't think math or grammar works, here!  |
Untrue thou Deist! You blow me away.
I guess my elementary response was a nice way of saying you were going to lose me much like my math and English teachers did years ago.
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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07-30-2008, 10:48 AM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Flower Mound, Tx
Posts: 2,792
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Re: My Signature Diagram
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Rutledge
John 8:24..I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
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The trinitarians believe this.
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07-30-2008, 10:50 AM
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My Family!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Collierville, TN
Posts: 31,786
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Re: My Signature Diagram
Quote:
Originally Posted by mizpeh
I think each point, Father, Son, Spirit, and God need to be defined. Here's some definitions for Father, Son, and Spirit that I personally like and agree with:
Father: God transcendent. God in His existence above and beyond Creation and the Incarnation.
Son: God incarnate- the Theanthropos. In the Incarnation, God added to His divine nature a genuine human nature, and then began to exist through this human nature, in contradistinction to His continued existence as transcendent God (Father).
Holy Spirit: God immanent. God existing as active and present in the physical universe, temporally and spatially.
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Agreed!
I believe sometimes we as oneness belivers are hesitant to state it this way for fear of sounding like we believe in three Gods. Nope - just one.
__________________
Master of Science in Applied Disgruntled Religious Theorist Wrangling
PhD in Petulant Tantrum Quelling
Dean of the School of Hard Knocks
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07-30-2008, 10:50 AM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,197
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Re: My Signature Diagram
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Rutledge
John 8:24..I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
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I think this was indeed a reference to Christ's claim of being God... but not a reference to His Father in particular.
Time for another Diagram
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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