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  #41  
Old 07-30-2008, 09:49 AM
mizpeh mizpeh is offline
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Re: My Signature Diagram

As Timmy brought out the word, God, is used in different ways, with different meanings attached especially, IMO, by Trinitarians. So the definition of the word, God, in your diagram may be interpreted differently by those of a different theological persuasion.

Here is an example of what I mean. On another forum, I asked a Trinitarian to define the word, God, in each of these phrases (his answers are in bold):

How do you interpret the word, God, in these 8 examples?

1. Jesus is God. Ontologically.
2. God is a Trinity. Relationally.
3. The God of our Fathers. God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit).
4. And the Word was God. Ontologically.
5. God the Father One of the persons within God
6. Being in the form of God. Ontologically.
7. In the beginning, God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit).
8. 2Cor5: 18-19 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation ....I'd say the Father.
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To be a servant of God, it will cost us our total commitment to God, and God alone. His burden must be our burden... Sis Alvear
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  #42  
Old 07-30-2008, 09:54 AM
U376977 U376977 is offline
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Re: My Signature Diagram

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover View Post
I am sorry, I do not see those "terms" used in the Diagram.

The primary purpose for me using the diagram is to have this discussion.
Then let me be more precise.

"God is the Holy Spirit" Not in the bible.

"Father is not the Son is not the Holy Ghost" not in the bible.

Problem with all such diagrams, Oversimplification. Then have to explain, "what I mean by that.'

If people who have been trained on the Godhead (OP-as opposed to most trinity peoples lack of training) cannot understand the diagram then it certainly could not be used as a teaching tool--even in Oneness churches.
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  #43  
Old 07-30-2008, 09:56 AM
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Re: My Signature Diagram

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Rutledge View Post
No, it does not fit into mine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nahkoe View Post
No.
The diagram makes six statements. Which ones do you disagree with?

1. The Father is not The Son
2. The Father is not The Holy Spirit
3. The Holy Spirit is not The Son
4. The Father is God
5. God is The Son
6. God is The Holy Spirit

I'm going to get all mathematical on you again, but I have to point out that "God is The Son" is equivalent to "The Son is God", if "is" is commutative. And again, this is true if "God" is a name or proper noun, not an adjective (getting all grammatical again!). I used the orderings I did because that's how the diagram shows them.
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  #44  
Old 07-30-2008, 09:58 AM
mizpeh mizpeh is offline
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Re: My Signature Diagram

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
The diagram makes six statements. Which ones do you disagree with?

1. The Father is not The Son
2. The Father is not The Holy Spirit
3. The Holy Spirit is not The Son
4. The Father is God
5. God is The Son
6. God is The Holy Spirit

I'm going to get a mathematical on you again, but I have to point out that "God is The Son" is equivalent to "The Son is God", if "is" is commutative. And again, this is true if "God" is a name or proper noun, not an adjective (getting all grammatical again!). I used the orderings I did because that's how the diagram shows them.
Timothy, I'm impressed!
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His banner over me is LOVE.... My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?

To be a servant of God, it will cost us our total commitment to God, and God alone. His burden must be our burden... Sis Alvear
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  #45  
Old 07-30-2008, 10:00 AM
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Re: My Signature Diagram

Quote:
Originally Posted by mizpeh View Post
Timothy, I'm impressed!
Stephen's not. He doesn't think math or grammar works, here!
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  #46  
Old 07-30-2008, 10:06 AM
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Tim Rutledge Tim Rutledge is offline
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Smile Re: My Signature Diagram

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsMcD View Post
This is why I like it. I've heard too many folks claim that we believe Jesus is his own father.
Jesus had a dual nature. He was 100% God and he was 100% Man.

There is only One God and his name is Jesus.

God manifested Himself in the flesh (son).

The Holy Ghost was the "father" of the son (flesh).

When they saw Jesus they saw the Father.

Head knowledge and logic is not enough.. you must have a revelation of who Jesus is.

Jesus and His father were Absolutely One.

The mystery of Godliness is.. trying to understand His dual nature.
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  #47  
Old 07-30-2008, 10:08 AM
U376977 U376977 is offline
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Re: My Signature Diagram

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
The diagram makes six statements. Which ones do you disagree with?

1. The Father is not The Son
2. The Father is not The Holy Spirit
3. The Holy Spirit is not The Son
4. The Father is God
5. God is The Son
6. God is The Holy Spirit

I'm going to get all mathematical on you again, but I have to point out that "God is The Son" is equivalent to "The Son is God", if "is" is commutative. And again, this is true if "God" is a name or proper noun, not an adjective (getting all grammatical again!). I used the orderings I did because that's how the diagram shows them.

I really do love your mind. You seem to dissect, turn over every rock, look in every hole, and analyze, analyze and analyze. That approach would be perfect for a project development team. But enough about your career possibilities.

I think this is the wrong approach for this diagram and the subject of the Godhead in general.

You post the diagram says 6 things. It does, but it does not. How one interpets just one (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6) will change the meaing of all the other five. All 6 statements form one understanding of the diagram; they are all interdependant of each other.
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  #48  
Old 07-30-2008, 10:20 AM
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Tim Rutledge Tim Rutledge is offline
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Re: My Signature Diagram

Quote:
Originally Posted by timmy View Post
the diagram makes six statements. Which ones do you disagree with?

1. The father is not the son
2. The father is not the holy spirit
3. The holy spirit is not the son
4. The father is god
5. God is the son
6. God is the holy spirit

i'm going to get all mathematical on you again, but i have to point out that "god is the son" is equivalent to "the son is god", if "is" is commutative. and again, this is true if "god" is a name or proper noun, not an adjective (getting all grammatical again!). I used the orderings i did because that's how the diagram shows them.

#1, #2, & #3.
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  #49  
Old 07-30-2008, 10:22 AM
mizpeh mizpeh is offline
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Re: My Signature Diagram

Quote:
Originally Posted by U376977 View Post
I really do love your mind. You seem to dissect, turn over every rock, look in every hole, and analyze, analyze and analyze. That approach would be perfect for a project development team. But enough about your career possibilities.

I think this is the wrong approach for this diagram and the subject of the Godhead in general.

You post the diagram says 6 things. It does, but it does not. How one interpets just one (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6) will change the meaing of all the other five. All 6 statements form one understanding of the diagram; they are all interdependant of each other.
I think each point, Father, Son, Spirit, and God need to be defined. Here's some definitions for Father, Son, and Spirit that I personally like and agree with:

Father: God transcendent. God in His existence above and beyond Creation and the Incarnation.

Son: God incarnate- the Theanthropos. In the Incarnation, God added to His divine nature a genuine human nature, and then began to exist through this human nature, in contradistinction to His continued existence as transcendent God (Father).

Holy Spirit: God immanent. God existing as active and present in the physical universe, temporally and spatially.
__________________
His banner over me is LOVE.... My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?

To be a servant of God, it will cost us our total commitment to God, and God alone. His burden must be our burden... Sis Alvear
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  #50  
Old 07-30-2008, 10:22 AM
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Re: My Signature Diagram

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Rutledge View Post
#1, #2, & #3.
So, you believe The Father is The Son, etc.?
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