Signs Wonders And Knowing Jesus - Page 2

Michael The Disciple · #11 04-08-2009, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KWSS1976

I am talking about touching,filling to be face to face personal contact..

Ok but I am talking about HOW can man have a personal relationship with Yeshua the Messiah apart from him revealing or manifesting himself to him?

Is ones faith in the written word of Elohim never to be vindicated by personal visitations of him?

Timmy · #12 04-08-2009, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pelathais

Yet, how can you know that the Bible is true without "signs" (and I'm willing to be rather open ended about "signs)."

The Bible is a testimony of those who were declaring the Gospel in the first century (NT). If "signs" were needed in the first century to validate that testimony, would not "signs" be needed today to validate the exact same testimony from the exact same people?

They (signs and wonders) aren't doing a good job of proving the Bible. It's like Aaron's rod turning into a snake. Pharaoh's magicians did the same thing. Ah, but Aaron's snake ate them up, you say? Sure. Aaron was a better illusionist than they were. So? Maybe with some practice, they can get their snakes can start eating things, too.

Today, we have nifty signs and wonders like people standing up from wheelchairs, tongues, prophecies and words of knowledge, people falling down at the alter (wow!), etc. All of which can easily be duplicated by "Pharaoh's magicians" (such as Hindus and Mormons). Show me an amputee growing a new leg. That would be good, for starters. (But if a Hindu accomplishes something like that, some would say it's just the devil's counterfeit. Sigh.)

KWSS1976 · #13 04-08-2009, 08:54 AM

We have the bible to know who he was there will be know personal contact with him touching,filling,hugging,kissing etc until he returns and we are in heaven..

edjen01 · #14 04-08-2009, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timmy

They (signs and wonders) aren't doing a good job of proving the Bible. It's like Aaron's rod turning into a snake. Pharaoh's magicians did the same thing. Ah, but Aaron's snake ate them up, you say? Sure. Aaron was a better illusionist than they were. So? Maybe with some practice, they can get their snakes can start eating things, too.

Today, we have nifty signs and wonders like people standing up from wheelchairs, tongues, prophecies and words of knowledge, people falling down at the alter (wow!), etc. All of which can easily be duplicated by "Pharaoh's magicians" (such as Hindus and Mormons). Show me an amputee growing a new leg. That would be good, for starters. (But if a Hindu accomplishes something like that, some would say it's just the devil's counterfeit. Sigh.)

Timmy....just because someone can make a fake $100 doesn't mean that real ones don't exsist. I agree that there are plenty of fakes in and out of the church...but that does not mean that everyone/everything is a fake.

What about the miracles in the New Testament?....are they fake as well? Christ resurrection...fake?...St.Paul's survival from a deadly snake bite...fake?

Have you ever personally witnessed a super-natural event?

edjen01 · #15 04-08-2009, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KWSS1976

See the way I see it is people then needed signs and maricles/wonders (sp) to prove that jesus was who he was in that time we have the bible now to tell us all this and the bible is not even in order to how things happened back then..

You have tremendous faith!!

You place your faith and trust in a book that has been copied and rewritten many times in different languages...that none of the orginal manuscriptes exsist...and you still place the care of your eternal soul to its teachings.

And yet you think it is too much to believe in the super-natural.

That we can read a book, have faith it is correct and find salvation there....but cannot communicate with the author?

pelathais · #16 04-08-2009, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KWSS1976

No because they did not have a bible in the NT they needed these signs and wonders cause people did not believe. We have a book that tells how it all went down we do not need signs and maricles we have the written word of god which they did not have then. If we still had apostotles running around we would not have a bible to read and they would still be performing there signs and maricles to prove to us the god is who he is....

Slow down for a moment... What is the difference between having Saint Peter show up on your doorstep with an incredible story about the "resurrection from the dead," and reading the same words of Saint Peter in Acts 2 more almost 2,000 years later?

You're saying that it's more believable to read a 2,000 year old book than it is to interview and question the primary sources responsible for that book?

pelathais · #17 04-08-2009, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KWSS1976

We have the bible to know who he was there will be know personal contact with him touching,filling,hugging,kissing etc until he returns and we are in heaven..

Your "reasoning" appears to negate the Bible altogether, and I don't think that's even your intention.

KWSS1976 · #18 04-08-2009, 09:30 AM

Edjen01 reread what you just said please you yourself said the book has been rewritten in many diffrent languges many diffrent times that is correct and your right the orignal manuscripts do not still exsist.Without he bible edjen01 you and I and everyone else would not even know about jesus so if youy did not have the bible you would not know jesus therefore could not talk to him as you say you can...(No bible no jesus)the bible is the only way we know of him...

Michael The Disciple · #19 04-08-2009, 09:36 AM

Sure its true false prophets and preachers are highly visible today. My purpose however is to ENCOURAGE Saints to seek for personal favor from the Lord. Just because skeptics reject these things does not mean they are right.

The Bible itself is where we get faith that brings about PERSONAL FELLOWSHIP with Yeshua.

8: Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. James 4:8

We should desire a CLOSE WALK with Elohim. Something more than just reading about how close Noah walked with him. Or how close he was to Paul. His desire is to make himself KNOWN to the believer.

When he does that it is THROUGH some sign or wonder.

It may be an answered prayer. It may be a dream or vision that comes to pass. It may be some leading of his Spirit. If there is flat out nothing thats not good.

6: But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Heb. 11:6

Reading the Bible can help us to believe that HE IS. But the other and personal to us part of the equasion is that we MUST BELIEVE he is a rewarder of the one who diligently seek him.

In other words we want him to show us favor.

The word "grace" just means favor. If there is no favor from Elohim in ones life that means they are not in his grace.

edjen01 · #20 04-08-2009, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KWSS1976

No because they did not have a bible in the NT they needed these signs and wonders cause people did not believe. We have a book that tells how it all went down we do not need signs and maricles we have the written word of god which they did not have then. If we still had apostotles running around we would not have a bible to read and they would still be performing there signs and maricles to prove to us the god is who he is....

so you do not believe that the O.T. is the written word of god...because they had it back then.

If I read this correctly...you believe that super-natural events were only there to prove who god is....but are not here today because we have a book that proves who he is? Wouldn't this book by its very nature....be super-natural?

you also mention apostoles...how do we know they are no longer around? we still have evangelist, pastors...does the church need less edifying?