Is baptism essential unto salvation? - Page 48

Adino · #**471** 06-20-2009, 04:29 PM

Anyone,

It is a matter of historical fact that that blood of Christ was 'applied' at Calvary PRIOR to Christ's resurrection. If it had not been applied, then Christ would not have been resurrected. The resurrection proves that the shed blood of Christ was effective in removing any sin imputed to Christ. ALL sin imputed to Christ was remitted because of his blood BEFORE he rose again.

Why must WE (at any time) apply the blood which the resurrection proves has already been applied and accepted by God?

Our sin was imputed to Christ and it was removed BEFORE the resurrection, thus, as far as the sin imputed to Christ is concerned, it is a matter of history, proven by the resurrection, that the blood has already been applied in the eyes of God (else Christ would not have been raised).

Do you believe the blood of Christ must be applied twice? Once before the resurrection and then again when we are baptized?

AND...

What is the blood being applied to in baptism?If our sins were historically removed before the resurrection, what is the blood being applied to in baptism?

HopePreacher · #**472** 06-20-2009, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

Yes, and it is a question I ask ALL the time to people to show me when the blood is applied. Romans 6 is clear. Death is synonymous with the blood. We are baptized into his death/sacrifice/blood! These are used to illustrate the moment in time in which we realize HIM in his sacrifice as we are UNITED WITH HIM IN IT!

Actually, unless I missed something, the passage you refer to in Romans does not mention the blood of Christ. HOwever, here is a scripture that applies the blood at the point of faith in Christ:

Romans 3:25 God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished-- 26 he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

The following scriptures do not contain the words "faith" and "blood" in the same sentence, but in context the subject is faith in Christ: Romans 5:9, Hebrews 9:14, 1 John 1:7, Revelation 1:5.

I looked diligently but I didn't find any scripture that directly linked baptism and the application of the blood.

HopePreacher · #**473** 06-20-2009, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adino

Anyone,

It is a matter of historical fact that that blood of Christ was 'applied' at Calvary PRIOR to Christ's resurrection. If it had not been applied, then Christ would not have been resurrected. The resurrection proves that the shed blood of Christ was effective in removing any sin imputed to Christ. ALL sin imputed to Christ was remitted because of his blood BEFORE he rose again.

Why must WE (at any time) apply the blood which the resurrection proves has already been applied and accepted by God?

Our sin was imputed to Christ and it was removed BEFORE the resurrection, thus, as far as the sin imputed to Christ is concerned, it is a matter of history, proven by the resurrection, that the blood has already been applied in the eyes of God (else Christ would not have been raised).

Do you believe the blood of Christ must be applied twice? Once before the resurrection and then again when we are baptized?

AND...

What is the blood being applied to in baptism?If our sins were historically removed before the resurrection, what is the blood being applied to in baptism?

If the blood is already applied, then what does faith do?

Jermyn Davidson · #**474** 06-20-2009, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HopePreacher

I looked diligently but I didn't find any scripture that directly linked baptism and the application of the blood.

I agree with you HP.

However, baptism is mandated Biblically.

It is safe Biblically to say that baptism plays a role in our salvation.
We do it because God says do it-- regardless of how we see it fitting in to the process.

HopePreacher · #**475** 06-20-2009, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

I agree with you HP.

However, baptism is mandated Biblically.

It is safe Biblically to say that baptism plays a role in our salvation.
We do it because God says do it-- regardless of how we see it fitting in to the process.

That is what I teach. My question is not whether baptism is essential to salvation; my question is why would a person not be baptized?

an interesting side note; in the church where I serve on staff (a Charismatic church of about 350 in regular attendance) I do most of the baptizing. When the senior pastor saw me baptize the firsst time he asked me where I learned to baptize like that (I combine Matthew 28:19 and Acts 2:38) then declared that is the way this church will baptize from now on. So, in this otherwise trinitarian church, everyone who has been baptized here over the past four years has been baptized in Jesus name.

Falla39 · #**476** 06-20-2009, 04:59 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IH7MH7n3j28

HopePreacher · #**477** 06-20-2009, 06:22 PM

Thank you sister Falla. Vestel Goodman is one of my all-time favorites.

Falla39 · #**478** 06-20-2009, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HopePreacher

Thank you sister Falla. Vestel Goodman is one of my all-time favorites.

I always liked to hear Vestel Goodman sing, but most of all, I love that
old hymn of the church.

Blessings,

Falla39

Sam · #**479** 06-20-2009, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HopePreacher

Thank you sister Falla. Vestel Goodman is one of my all-time favorites.

Vestal Goodman!
What a singer!!!
What a voice!!!
What an anointing!!!

Years ago as we got our family (5 children, my wife and I) ready for Sunday School we used to play those old 33 1/3 vinyl albums of the Goodmans, the Rambos, the Sego Brothers and Naomi, and others. My wife would put a roast covered with dry onion soup mix and surrounded by carrots and potatoes in the oven and away we'd go. Several hours later, after Sunday School and morning service and sometimes prayer around the altar, we'd get back home with our stomachs growling and open the door and that heavenly aroma of roast would greet us.

The Goodmans were always favorites of ours. We saw them in person once many years ago when they were all alive and well and singing together. Then when Bill Gaither came out with those videos we bought a lot of them.

I remember seeing Vestal Goodman praying for someone on tv. I don't remember the person or the occasion but Vestel prayed mightily in tongues. I could sense that anointing of power seeing it on video. It bore witness with my spirit.

Sam · #**480** 06-20-2009, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

Sam,

Do you believe that a person who has the opportunity for baptism and simply denies it and dies unbaptized will inherit eternal life?

I don't think that the waters in baptism washes sins away, but I think that every believer must be baptized, in accordance with scripture.

What do you think?

I would not judge anyone on their baptism.
Over the years I've interacted with and fellowshipped lots of people from various church backgrounds. Some were sprinkled as children and did not believe they had to do anything else as far as baptism. Some had been sprinkled as children and then immersed as adults after they had made a personal commitment to the Lord. Some thought it was wrong to be immersed as an adult if you had been sprinkled as a child. Some were baptized (immersed) using the FS&HG wording and others were baptized (immersed) using the name of Jesus and maybe some titles like Lord and/or Christ.

I do not know what is in a person's heart and how much he/she understands about doctrines like communion, baptism, church membership and other things where there is diversity among Christians. It is my opinion that if a person is sincerely in love with and serving Jesus, that person will walk in whatever light he/she receives. I have to leave that between the person and the One who is our Judge.