I understand it. Without belief none of it is of any use. That is why I do not believe salvation by works.
Isn't your salvation a result of the works of others? Someone told you about the Gospel. That's a work. Without it, you would not have been saved. Right?
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
Isn't your salvation a result of the works of others? Someone told you about the Gospel. That's a work. Without it, you would not have been saved. Right?
Wrong. The efforts of anyone, including me in my baptism, are not actions that directly make me righteous. Saying someone preached to me so that I could be saved, and that without such a person I would not be saved, is not salvation by works that render us righteous in and of themselves. Everyone here is missing the point that salvation by works means works in and of themselves renders us righteous.
This was the all-erring problem of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil. Acquire a knowledge of what is good and what is evil and utilize that knowledge to make yourself righteous.
Folks, do a study on righteousness and how it is acquired, and realize that salvation by works is directly contradictory to the truth of how we become righteous. Action is fine so long as it does not propose to make us righteous in and of itself. Until people learn that, they will never get the truth of the picture. It seems people against baptism as part of salvation simply refuse to deal with that all-important and all-determining issue, and they miss it everytime we speak of it.
__________________ ...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
Wrong. The efforts of anyone, including me in my baptism, are not actions that directly make me righteous. Saying someone preached to me so that I could be saved, and that without such a person I would not be saved, is not salvation by works that render us righteous in and of themselves. Everyone here is missing the point that salvation by works means works in and of themselves renders us righteous.
This was the all-erring problem of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil. Acquire a knowledge of what is good and what is evil and utilize that knowledge to make yourself righteous.
Folks, do a study on righteousness and how it is acquired, and realize that salvation by works is directly contradictory to the truth of how we become righteous. Action is fine so long as it does not propose to make us righteous in and of itself. Until people learn that, they will never get the truth of the picture. It seems people against baptism as part of salvation simply refuse to deal with that all-important and all-determining issue, and they miss it everytime we speak of it.
I understand what the usual meaning of the term "salvation by works" is. I didn't mean someone else's works made you righteous. But isn't it true that someone's works led to your hearing the Gospel? And isn't it true that, had those works not been done (or someone else's similar works), you would not have heard?
__________________
Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
I understand what the usual meaning of the term "salvation by works" is. I didn't mean someone else's works made you righteous. But isn't it true that someone's works led to your hearing the Gospel? And isn't it true that, had those works not been done (or someone else's similar works), you would not have heard?
Yes, indeed! But the only thing the bible is against is salvation by works as though those works make us righteous. And even in the cases of people preaching for me to be saved, it is really God directing it all.
__________________ ...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
Yes, indeed! But the only thing the bible is against is salvation by works as though those works make us righteous. And even in the cases of people preaching for me to be saved, it is really God directing it all.
Just sayin'.
__________________
Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
Yes, indeed! But the only thing the bible is against is salvation by works as though those works make us righteous. And even in the cases of people preaching for me to be saved, it is really God directing it all.
So am I to understand, from this statement, that you believe works could help us obtain righteousness, but works don't make us righteous? I'm still a little stuck on your claim that you were able to speak in tongues (a necessary element of salvation according to you) because you "let go of sin."
Wrong. The efforts of anyone, including me in my baptism, are not actions that directly make me righteous. Saying someone preached to me so that I could be saved, and that without such a person I would not be saved, is not salvation by works that render us righteous in and of themselves. Everyone here is missing the point that salvation by works means works in and of themselves renders us righteous.
This was the all-erring problem of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil. Acquire a knowledge of what is good and what is evil and utilize that knowledge to make yourself righteous.
Folks, do a study on righteousness and how it is acquired, and realize that salvation by works is directly contradictory to the truth of how we become righteous. Action is fine so long as it does not propose to make us righteous in and of itself. Until people learn that, they will never get the truth of the picture. It seems people against baptism as part of salvation simply refuse to deal with that all-important and all-determining issue, and they miss it everytime we speak of it.
One could simply read the opening pages of this thread to find the study that you're suggesting.
Romans 4 and its summation in Romans 5:1, have been quoted so much that it threatened to bring down the Biblegateway server.
Changing your position as you've done is great! but don't chide with "everyone" because they didn't agree with you when you were on the other side of the fence.
Thanks, I thought that was the part you said I was failing to understand.
HAHAHAHAHAHA.... my friend this is THEOLOGY and DOCTRINE.... they have no friends. Get away from discussing points that war with each other and the problem is I never take anything serious and hold no grudges and love to have fun to much.... When it comes to doctrine truth cuts and does not waver and it's not a game and it's not to be taken lightly. I hope you understand.
Just sayin'. 
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