Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume
here is what you are missing. The DEATH of Jesus is the issue. The reason we read that remission of sins occurs by the blood of Jesus, while at the same time we read repentance and baptism is for the remission of sins, is because both blood and baptism indicate the death of Christ. We do not literally and physically get hold of red sticky vein fluid to remit our sins. Shedding of blood indicates loss of life for the life of the flesh is in the blood. Shed blood indicates death. Baptism is immersion into the death of Jesus, too. It's not the water. Hence, baptism and the blood of Jesus both are said to remit sins. But the actual remission of sins occurs BY OUR INCLUSION INTO THE DEATH OF CHRIST.
The fact is that those who think baptism does not have to occur will see people never bother with it. fact. the book of Acts shows that was not the case. Acts shows commands to be baptized over and over. That just is not present in ministries that do not believe baptism is part of salvation.
The other extreme is baptismal regeneration where no faith is needed, and you can baptize infants. Both are wrong.
Baptism is part of salvation. The eastern church has more a handle on it than the liberal west. They say A MYSTERY is involved. We cannot fully comprehend how, but God does something supernatural in baptism. The west throws that out altogether.
But it's the FAITH that is all important. Philip said as much to the eunuch. Jesus said in Mark 16:16. That is the reason that if the commonly spoken thought of a death between repentance and baptism occurs is answered by the fact that the intention of FAITH that God sees in a heart means the person is saved. Again, Abraham would not have been deemed righteous had he not later been circumcised, for God sees the FAITH THAT WORKS. Real faith that saves WILL WORK. The work is necessary or else the faith was absent.
That's a shallow overview. Baptism is far deeper than what you folks are seeing. And pat responses such as baptism saves, but doesn't save exposes that.
Peter says baptism saves. Now, YOU explain what he meant. So far you have only quoted him and given no explanation. |
I don't want to wade to deeply in these waters but I will ask one question; How can the saints who lived and died prior to the advent of Christ possibly be saved if baptism is necessary for salvation?
Do you advocate two methods of salvation; one for those pre-advent and one for those post-advent?
Consider the following excerpt from
Romans 3 (NLT)...
"23 For everyone has sinned; we all fall short of God’s glorious standard. 24 Yet God, with undeserved kindness, declares that we are righteous. He did this through Christ Jesus when he freed us from the penalty for our sins. 25 For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin. People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood.
This sacrifice shows that God was being fair when he held back and did not punish those who sinned in times past, 26 for he was looking ahead and including them in what he would do in this present time. God did this to demonstrate his righteousness, for he himself is fair and just, and he declares sinners to be right in his sight when they believe in Jesus."
I'm open to instruction but this passage seems to indicate that all who have ever lived and believed are held to the same standard. That standard is faith in God.
Old Testament saints had a forward looking faith. They believed on and in a Messiah whose name as of yet had not been revealed. Paul says God counted them as righteous in response to that faith.
New Testament saints possess the revealed name of Jesus but righteousness is imputed to us no differently. We are justified by grace through faith.
Ephesians 2:8-9
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