The Real Evidence of Salvation

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by renee819

Jason, you are always falling back on, “The normative universal experience”

After 325AD, several hundred years, “The normative universal experience” was to be a Catholic. Did that make Catholicism true?

Renee that's not my main argument, its just a side note wherein I'm basically noting that if those who say that tongues are the only initial evidence that someone is saved, and without which they are lost (as Hometown Guy did earlier in this thread) then we must deal with the fact that that is not born out in history, leaving us with two conclusions:
1)Essentially no one was saved at the very least from the 2nd through the 19th centuries
2)God has always saved people throughout the church age, although it is obvious the majority have not spoken in tongues who did the most to further the gospel, and so perhaps those who insist on the initial evidence doctrine are mistaken (wrong).


In addition to this we also have to deal with the fact that even now not everyone who seeks the Holy Ghost receives it. Luke 11:13 presents it as a gift, something that is bestowed upon us by God, not something that is worked for or begged for, or labored for over long hours over many nights and even years at an altar. No, its a promise that God has promised if we ask for it He will give it. He's more willing and eager to give the Holy Ghost as we would be to give food to our own hungry children. But what we observe is many times the exact opposite-we see weeping, wailing, begging, and people going away "empty" being told to "keep trying" or "you almost got it" and other such NONSENSE. Beyond these things tongues in the Bible are languages, not unintelligible sounds or rapidly repeated syllables (in this way the Pentecostal/charismatic experiences manifestations that are common to certain aspects of paganism-including a lack/loss of self control, which is CONTRARY to the fruit of the Spirit). Simply put, I'd sum up by saying a lot of what we see in Pentecostal churches isn't even biblical. Its not the same type of tongues as acts, some manifestations are the opposite of what we are told the Holy Spirit himself would produce, and so even if the doctrine made sense in theory, it fails in practice.

And just to tie this in with this thread, NONE of these things are said to indicate, be signs, or evidences of true salvation according to the Bible.