Anybody Read This ?

[n david]

Let me first say, I enjoy your posts and most of the time agree with you. It's not often where I will find myself disagreeing with something you post. I want to point this out because I tend to use sarcasm, and while I will try to keep from doing so here, if I do, I mean no disrespect to you.

I have to break this up into a few posts, because it is long.

Originally Posted by Aquila

I’m not convinced that Contemplative Prayer, yadda, yadda, yadda, is altogether “unbiblical”. Yes, I’ve read some books on the subject of more meditative forms of prayer (what I believe is biblically called “meditation”) and they have incorporated strange ideas from other traditions. However, spiritual meditation, stillness, and listening for God to speak or to enter into the deeper dimensions of His presence are perfectly biblical. And being Pentecostal, we of all people should know this. In fact, “tongues”, is known as “ecstatic utterance”. Historically tongues often accompanied what traditional churches called “spiritual ecstasy”, a trance like state wherein visions and spiritual giftings such as prophesy, healing, tongues, dreams, etc. are found. Pentecostals almost experience this daily (if deeply engaged in a Spirit filled prayer life).

Speaking in tongues and trying to create the "divine spark" within ourselves are not the same. Contemplative prayer, centering prayer, prayer formation, Lectio Divina are not found in the scripture, they are only found in eastern religions like Buddhism, Zen and other mystical spiritual practices.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Notice something that Paul wrote:
I Corinthians 14:13-15
Wherefore let him that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue
pray that he may interpret. For if I pray in an
[unknown] tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding
is unfruitful. What is it then? I will pray with the
spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will
sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding
also.

Paul draws a distinction between praying “with the spirit” (the inner man) and praying “with the understanding” (the mind). Notice that when praying with the spirit, a man’s mind (or understanding) is silent (unfruitful).

I don't believe this is what Paul is saying at all. What Paul is saying is when he speaks in an unknown tongue, his mind doesn't know what he is saying. That's why the last part of the verse says, I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understaning also...

Look at the beginning of this passage for context: "For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit."

This is what is meant by "my understanding is unfruitful;" not that his mind is silent, but that his mind does not understand what is being said.

Originally Posted by Aquila

My first experience like this was during an altar call about 7 years ago. The power of God filled the sanctuary to the point wherein people were laying all over the floor speaking in tongues, crying, praising, moaning, repenting and weeping in supplications. I remember coming off the platform only to lose my ability to stand. I “fell out” on the floor next to the altar and there I lay for nearly an hour speaking in tongues and weeping. All I remember during that period of time was the awe inspiring awareness that God was indeed… present. My spirit had never felt more at peace, safer, calmer, and my mind was so quiet it seemed the time passed in what seemed like mere moments. It was so powerful; I needed help out to my car. There wasn’t a booming voice, a prophesy, or a message… there was only the power of His “presence”. And His mere presence calmed every fear and opened my soul to receive whatever was God’s will regarding my life and my future. It was a most blessed state.

Since then I have sought to enter into that realm of prayer many times. I find it easier to enter into that state by focusing upon God, a work of Jesus, or an attribute of God and/or Jesus (they are one). Sometimes I’ll still my heart and focus on a biblical truth or a verse of Scripture. Soon, I’m lost in the Spirit and I come out refreshed and assured of God’s reality in a way that transcends my human intellect. Sometimes I pray in tongues. Sometimes I hear the tongues in my head. Sometimes I’ve interpreted the tongues. Sometimes I sense nothing but my being and God’s presence. The silence speaks more than mere words can describe. And when realities concerning having the Holy Ghost residing in me began to pour forth… I realized the reality behind being “one spirit with the Lord” (I Corinthians 6:17).

I do not believe this is the same as what we're talking about. I've also been "slain in the spirit" before. Not once was I trying to center on myself or create a divine spark within myself. It was of God, not myself. This is the error of contemplative/centering prayer.

Nor is simply being still while reading the Bible or praying silently within the same as contemplative prayer.

Originally Posted by Aquila

There have been studies in those who speak in tongues. If you search YouTube for “Speaking in Tongues” and “Neuroscience” you’ll find a news segment dedicated to the research. Those studying brainwaves of those who spoke in tongues (or in the Spirit) found that the areas of the brain that control speech are active… but not those areas that control cognitive reasoning. In other words… it’s not the individual praying in the Spirit who is praying, something else is praying through them. Although the researcher is hesitant to affirm that this validates speaking in tongues, the researcher testifies that those who speak in tongues are truly experiencing a truly unique form of speech wherein the brain isn’t communicating thought. We know that as Paul wrote, the spirit is praying although the mind is not bearing fruitful thought.

Again, I do not believe Paul was saying the mind was silent -- only that the mind cannot understand what is being said.