Once Saved Always Saved

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

"I will ask it again! Moslems deny the cross. Are they lost?"
and i will say it again; you are attempting to force Muslims into your definition of "the cross," and insisting that the First Son become the Second for salvation.

"

No, it is the BIBLE's definition of the cross. You are taking all the good deeds Jesus instructs us to do and making them salvation, when Jesus meant that for those AFTER HIS CROSS saves us. Not our crosses.

Any Muslim practicing "love one another" as best they are able is following the cross, as the Qur'an instructs them to do.

You cannot , and every Muslim cannot, carry your and THEIR cross until YOU/THEY FIRST accept righteousness by faith from the work of Christ's death as us on HIS cross.

This is serious false doctrine. No evangelical, let alone OP's, agrees with your words here.

Carrying the cross in self denial DOES NOT SAVE US. THAT COMES AFTER we are saved by the cross of Jesus. We need HIS DEATH ON THE CROSS to save us, THEN we carry our crosses and follow Him in self denial BECAUSE we are saved. NOT TO GET SAVED.

You can pile all your nasty Christians on top of each other for a thousand miles high, and still have NO JUSTIFICATION to say that the cross of Jesus to save is IS NOT NECESSARY BEFORE we are to carry our crosses and follow Him.

You have blatantly espoused salvation BY WORKS when you say carrying our crosses in self denial will save Muslims or anyone else. Self denial does not save us. If that were the case, the saffron robed Tibetan monks would be saved. (You likely think they are, I guess).

Self denial is an act of the will and is a good deed and a work, and IT CANNOT SAVE.

You are espousing that righteousness comes from WORKING GOOD DEEDS, when the Bible teaches righteousness is a free gift that comes from Christ's work on the cross not OUR WORK in carrying our crosses.

The words you stated above are plain and simple SALVATION BY WORKS.

You are saying God sees how GOOD we can be in self denial, and without anything about Christ's death itself, you are saying OUR SELF DENIAL is salvational. That is the ripest form of salvation by works I have ever personally witnessed an alleged Christian ever espouse in my life.

I will show how the BIBLE teaches righteousness is NOT EARNED by OUR self denial, but by Christ's death.

Romans 3:21-28 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; (22) Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: (23) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; (24) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: (25) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; (26) To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. (27) Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. (28) Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

THE LAW said to love our neighbours as ourselves.

Leviticus 19:18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

THAT IS LAW. A deed of the Law. And by deeds of the Law shall NO FLESH BE JUSTIFIED.

Christ's work on the cross in HIS DEATH justifies us, not our self denial with our crosses. YES, we must carry our crosses, BUT NOT TO GET SAVED.

You are saying all that Paul said above is wrong, whether you realize it or not. Muslims have no faith in Jesus, and Paul said FAITH IN JESUS is what justifies us. NOT any carrying of OUR crosses. OUR CROSS comes after HIS CROSS SAVES US.

You're so caught up in nasty Christians that you effectively canned the entire concept of salvation by grace THROUGH FAITH in Christ's cross that "gifts" us His righteousness.

Again, no amount of nasty Christians removes the fact that faith in Christ's shed blood for our sins ALONE justifies and makes us righteous.

You can throw all the red herrings in to the fray you like, but we are NOT SAVED BY CARRYING OUR CROSSES.

And there is a multitude of Christians who genuinely carry their crosses and deny themselves and love God and their neighbours as themselves.