The Slippery Emergent Slope

[Apprehended]

S.G. Norris was teaching at the Bogalusa, La. Bible Conference about 1965, as I recall. In his discourse on his understanding of the light doctrine, he believed that his Presbyterian Aunt who had raised him would be saved since she was a godly woman, prayed much, etc., etc.... He explained that she never heard the Acts 2:38 message. He felt sure had she heard it, she would have obeyed it. Thought she had long since been dead at the time, he felt sure he would see her in heaven.

I raised my hand. He ignored me. I kept my hand raised. There were a house full of preachers there including the entire La. Dist. Board and Supt. C.G. Weeks and my pastor G.A. Mangun, none of whom believed Norris' doctrine. I was surprised that none of them spoke up.

Since he did not recognize my hand, I stood up with a still raised hand. He could not ignore this young, crew cut, wet behind the ears, fool-hardy enough to question his eminence, the venerable S.G. Norris.

"YEAH, WHADAYAWANT," he growled looking at me with eyes blazing with disdain.

"Brother Norris, in view of what you just said concerning your aunt, would you please explain the scripture, "If our Gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are LOST?"

He looked at me with fury and swelled up like a toad. He slowly walked down to where I was still standing. He grabbed me by the left arm and I could feel his finger nails digging into my flesh. He then pulled me out from where I was standing, and leading me up one aisle and down the other asking me periodically, "WELL WHADAYALOOKIN'FOR????? He repeatedly asked me as he looked from left to right. "TELL ME WHEN YOU SEE IT..."

Finally, when I said, "I have no idea what WE are looking for," he took me back to where I was standing, pushed me into the pew and said, "THAT'SWHATI'MTALKINGBOUT." If you don't have any idea what you are looking for, how is it that you are going to find it."

I stood back up to ask him again how he would explain, "If our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost." The wife whispered, "It might be better to just let him off the hook."

I did. I sat back down. But, I have that incident on an old reel to reel tape recording.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by Apprehended

S.G. Norris was teaching at the Bogalusa, La. Bible Conference about 1965, as I recall. In his discourse on his understanding of the light doctrine, he believed that his Presbyterian Aunt who had raised him would be saved since she was a godly woman, prayed much, etc., etc.... He explained that she never heard the Acts 2:38 message. He felt sure had she heard it, she would have obeyed it. Thought she had long since been dead at the time, he felt sure he would see her in heaven.

I raised my hand. He ignored me. I kept my hand raised. There were a house full of preachers there including the entire La. Dist. Board and Supt. C.G. Weeks and my pastor G.A. Mangun, none of whom believed Norris' doctrine. I was surprised that none of them spoke up.

Since he did not recognize my hand, I stood up with a still raised hand. He could not ignore this young, crew cut, wet behind the ears, fool-hardy enough to question his eminence, the venerable S.G. Norris.

"YEAH, WHADAYAWANT," he growled looking at me with eyes blazing with disdain.

"Brother Norris, in view of what you just said concerning your aunt, would you please explain the scripture, "If our Gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are LOST?"

He looked at me with fury and swelled up like a toad. He slowly walked down to where I was still standing. He grabbed me by the left arm and I could feel his finger nails digging into my flesh. He then pulled me out from where I was standing, and leading me up one aisle and down the other asking me periodically, "WELL WHADAYALOOKIN'FOR????? He repeatedly asked me as he looked from left to right. "TELL ME WHEN YOU SEE IT..."

Finally, when I said, "I have no idea what WE are looking for," he took me back to where I was standing, pushed me into the pew and said, "THAT'SWHATI'MTALKINGBOUT." If you don't have any idea what you are looking for, how is it that you are going to find it."

I stood back up to ask him again how he would explain, "If our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost." The wife whispered, "It might be better to just let him off the hook."

I did. I sat back down. But, I have that incident on an old reel to reel tape recording.

Ya gotta admit, though, he had a good point!

I used to hear so many stories about him from my dad's school days there. He must've been quite a fellow.



I've always understood that verse to mean, those that refuse to understand, believe it, not those who've never heard it, and verse 4 would seem to reinforce that, no?

[Apprehended]

Originally Posted by notofworks

Ya gotta admit, though, he had a good point!

I used to hear so many stories about him from my dad's school days there. He must've been quite a fellow.



I've always understood that verse to mean, those that refuse to understand, believe it, not those who've never heard it, and verse 4 would seem to reinforce that, no?

He was quite a character.

My childhood pastor, G.A. Mangun went through his school. He said that he got into trouble with him by simply asking a question in the form of a statement.

Elder Norris looked at him and bellowed: "ARE YOU TELLING ME OR ASKING ME?" Bishop Mangun said that he learned. He did not like to be questioned.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by Apprehended

He was quite a character.

My childhood pastor, G.A. Mangun went through his school. He said that he got into trouble with him by simply asking a question in the form of a statement.

Elder Norris looked at him and bellowed: "ARE YOU TELLING ME OR ASKING ME?" Bishop Mangun said that he learned. He did not like to be questioned.

I used to love to sit and listen to my dad tell the stories of the cattle prod, opening the windows to create a breeze to blow away the notes of guys who used too many....on and on. I never saw him in my life, that I know of, but in my mind, he's a much larger than life person who ruled over all!

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Apprehended

S.G. Norris was teaching at the Bogalusa, La. Bible Conference about 1965, as I recall. In his discourse on his understanding of the light doctrine, he believed that his Presbyterian Aunt who had raised him would be saved since she was a godly woman, prayed much, etc., etc.... He explained that she never heard the Acts 2:38 message. He felt sure had she heard it, she would have obeyed it. Thought she had long since been dead at the time, he felt sure he would see her in heaven.

I raised my hand. He ignored me. I kept my hand raised. There were a house full of preachers there including the entire La. Dist. Board and Supt. C.G. Weeks and my pastor G.A. Mangun, none of whom believed Norris' doctrine. I was surprised that none of them spoke up.

Since he did not recognize my hand, I stood up with a still raised hand. He could not ignore this young, crew cut, wet behind the ears, fool-hardy enough to question his eminence, the venerable S.G. Norris.

"YEAH, WHADAYAWANT," he growled looking at me with eyes blazing with disdain.

"Brother Norris, in view of what you just said concerning your aunt, would you please explain the scripture, "If our Gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are LOST?"

He looked at me with fury and swelled up like a toad. He slowly walked down to where I was still standing. He grabbed me by the left arm and I could feel his finger nails digging into my flesh. He then pulled me out from where I was standing, and leading me up one aisle and down the other asking me periodically, "WELL WHADAYALOOKIN'FOR????? He repeatedly asked me as he looked from left to right. "TELL ME WHEN YOU SEE IT..."

Finally, when I said, "I have no idea what WE are looking for," he took me back to where I was standing, pushed me into the pew and said, "THAT'SWHATI'MTALKINGBOUT." If you don't have any idea what you are looking for, how is it that you are going to find it."

I stood back up to ask him again how he would explain, "If our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost." The wife whispered, "It might be better to just let him off the hook."

I did. I sat back down. But, I have that incident on an old reel to reel tape recording.

Fine story, brave young man, however, what does "lost" mean? Big stretch from "lost" to annihiliation or endless torment. The one "lost" sheep, surely couldn't "see the gospel" but the Shepherd found him anyway!! Jesus said HE came to seek AND to save the "lost", so I would say that the "lost" are in a very good position!

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by crakjak

Fine story, brave young man, however, what does "lost" mean? Big stretch from "lost" to annihiliation or endless torment. The one "lost" sheep, surely couldn't "see the gospel" but the Shepherd found him anyway!! Jesus said HE came to seek AND to save the "lost", so I would say that the "lost" are in a very good position!

And yet only His sheep hear his voice

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Socialite

And yet only His sheep hear his voice

You haven't explained why HE leaves the 99, to go and seek out the 1 last and lost sheep. This is very much a UR context, yet most fail to see it, and if brought to their attention they ignore it.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by crakjak

You haven't explained why HE leaves the 99, to go and seek out the 1 last and lost sheep. This is very much a UR context, yet most fail to see it, and if brought to their attention they ignore it.

"The Good News is better than you ever imagined, LOVE WINS!!" Rob Bell

[onefaith2]

Originally Posted by Apprehended

S.G. Norris was teaching at the Bogalusa, La. Bible Conference about 1965, as I recall. In his discourse on his understanding of the light doctrine, he believed that his Presbyterian Aunt who had raised him would be saved since she was a godly woman, prayed much, etc., etc.... He explained that she never heard the Acts 2:38 message. He felt sure had she heard it, she would have obeyed it. Thought she had long since been dead at the time, he felt sure he would see her in heaven.

I raised my hand. He ignored me. I kept my hand raised. There were a house full of preachers there including the entire La. Dist. Board and Supt. C.G. Weeks and my pastor G.A. Mangun, none of whom believed Norris' doctrine. I was surprised that none of them spoke up.

Since he did not recognize my hand, I stood up with a still raised hand. He could not ignore this young, crew cut, wet behind the ears, fool-hardy enough to question his eminence, the venerable S.G. Norris.

"YEAH, WHADAYAWANT," he growled looking at me with eyes blazing with disdain.

"Brother Norris, in view of what you just said concerning your aunt, would you please explain the scripture, "If our Gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are LOST?"

He looked at me with fury and swelled up like a toad. He slowly walked down to where I was still standing. He grabbed me by the left arm and I could feel his finger nails digging into my flesh. He then pulled me out from where I was standing, and leading me up one aisle and down the other asking me periodically, "WELL WHADAYALOOKIN'FOR????? He repeatedly asked me as he looked from left to right. "TELL ME WHEN YOU SEE IT..."

Finally, when I said, "I have no idea what WE are looking for," he took me back to where I was standing, pushed me into the pew and said, "THAT'SWHATI'MTALKINGBOUT." If you don't have any idea what you are looking for, how is it that you are going to find it."

I stood back up to ask him again how he would explain, "If our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost." The wife whispered, "It might be better to just let him off the hook."

I did. I sat back down. But, I have that incident on an old reel to reel tape recording.

What would you have said if he replied, the Gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ?

1 Corinthians 15

Our gospel is not acts 2:38, that is our response to the gospel. When did acts 2:38 become the gospel?

Peter preached the gospel in Acts 2 and then in Acts 2:37 the men asked him what shall they do and he told them.

If an Episcopal lady or in S.G. Norris's case, his aunt, heard the gospel and then she was told to put her faith in the creeds, rituals, prayers of that church and she did.. what light did she respond to?

While I certainly am not convinced of everything the light doctrine espouses, there is merit to his arguments.

[Apprehended]

Originally Posted by onefaith2

What would you have said if he replied, the Gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ?

1 Corinthians 15

Our gospel is not acts 2:38, that is our response to the gospel. When did acts 2:38 become the gospel?

Peter preached the gospel in Acts 2 and then in Acts 2:37 the men asked him what shall they do and he told them.

If an Episcopal lady or in S.G. Norris's case, his aunt, heard the gospel and then she was told to put her faith in the creeds, rituals, prayers of that church and she did.. what light did she respond to?

While I certainly am not convinced of everything the light doctrine espouses, there is merit to his arguments.

Should I give you the good news (gospel) or the bad news first?

The bad news is man is lost in this world without hope. He's doomed. Nothing but death and destruction awaits. When he dies, what is there left for him except eternal death. Could I make it more gloomier? It's bad news from start to finish. There's no hope, no promises and no way out.

Now after feeling the despair that originate in that kind of bad news, let us now speak of the good news. Jesus, the Son (Lamb) of God came into the world to take away the sin of the whole world and to save sinners. He became the lamb of God, that through Him and his vicarious suffering and death, he took the penalty that was intended for mankind. He was buried and rose again effecting the whole plan of redemption for all mankind world wide from then henceforth for as long as there are men on the earth. This is the good news (gospel) to the whole world and for all man kind in the general sense.

Well, so what? A lot of good that does for me! So, Jesus died, was buried and rose again. How does that help me?

Good question. I only told you of the good news in the general sense that makes available good news to you as an individual. Now. If you truly believe that with all of your heart, there is good news for you in the specific sense. Are you ready to hear how this can become good news to you? Here is the gospel in the specific sense to you as one individual drawn from the gospel of Jesus Christ in the general sense which you have confessed and believe with your whole heart:

Because you are a sinner, which is your death warrant by which there is an eternal separation from God because of it. The sin question must be settled for you in that specific sense so that you may be absolved of the guilt of sin. To do that, you must appropriate for yourself that which the Lamb of God provided for you by his death, burial and resurrection.

First, you must turn away from your sin. If you were a serial killer. You must stop killing. If you worshiped other Gods, you must now worship the true God, the Lord Jesus Christ, the Alpha and Omega....the Almighty, the eternal one. If you are a fornicator, adulterer, liar, thief, on and on, you must cease from your sin because all sin is the transgression of God's law. This is DEATH to your old man who formerly lived in this world according to the deeds of your flesh.

Then you must show that repentance by going to the water to be buried in the Name of Jesus Christ by which action you not only show forth Christ's death in your own body, you also become identified with His death, burial and resurrection to rise up out of the water to walk in a new life in God.

This, as stated above is the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ both in the general and also the specific sense.