We have to Be perfect in order to make heaven

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by mfblume

What I mean by intentional is that a person sins with purposeful intent to sin and not caring whether or not God is pleased. Most believers could not resist the sin although they DID NOT want to displease God and knew it was wrong. They had weak resistance to sin. That is the distinction from what I called intentional sins. IOW, they intend to do it whether or not it is wrong just because they want to do it. But, if that intention is abandoned after they committed it, and they genuinely are sorry with a true change of heart and ask forgiveness, they will be forgiven.

How about people who know it's wrong, but go into it planning to repent later? (And, of course, they do repent later. )

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Timmy

How about people who know it's wrong, but go into it planning to repent later? (And, of course, they do repent later. )

They are doing spite to the Spirit and rejecting conviction. However, God is rich in mercy for those who turn to Him.

[NorCal]

Originally Posted by Aquila

They are doing spite to the Spirit and rejecting conviction. However, God is rich in mercy for those who turn to Him.

But have they truly Repented. Repentance is just not asking for Forgiveness. Repentance is asking for forgiveness and turning away from sin.

Most of the OSAS believers do not truly repent. Sure they ask for forgiveness, but then continue in their sin.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by NorCal

But have they truly Repented. Repentance is just not asking for Forgiveness. Repentance is asking for forgiveness and turning away from sin.

Most of the OSAS believers do not truly repent. Sure they ask for forgiveness, but then continue in their sin.

Repentance.... the Greek word "metanoia". It's composed of two words. Those are "meta", meaning "to change", and "noia", meaning "the way one thinks". Literally speaking it means, "to change the way you think". To repent of sin means, "to change the way you think about sin". That entails admitting that God's Word about sin is true and confessing your sins. And yes, it does lead to a change in direction, not through effort, but through faith. Faith in the indwelling Christ Jesus to live His life out through you. Because you are crucified with Christ, and yet you live. Not you, but Christ who lives within you.

You can try to change your ways through self effort and determination. But you'll never get anywhere. You'll be spinning your wheels. Even the righteousness you attain is self derived, thus it is "self righteousness". If you repent of sin and lay it at God's feet in total surrender, admitting that you can't do it in yourself, waiting on His transforming power... you'll be delivered... PERMANENTLY.

If you think your efforts and good deeds will save you... build me a wooden ladder to God's throne. Put all the effort you like into it. Prove effort can get you there.

The Bible says that He is able to "keep" us from sin and temptation. The Bible says that we are "His workmanship". That we have the imputed "righteousness of Christ". When we properly appropriate all of these truths, we are set free to live righteous and holy lives. Not by effort, because we're dead to the law. But by grace through faith... in a loving, changing, healing, delivering, and empowering Savior who lives HIS LIFE in us and through us.

[Pendragon]

Originally Posted by NorCal

But have they truly Repented. Repentance is just not asking for Forgiveness. Repentance is asking for forgiveness and turning away from sin.

Most of the OSAS believers do not truly repent. Sure they ask for forgiveness, but then continue in their sin.

Careful with this. You're getting dangerously close to the downward spiral of condemnation. I was taught for the longest time that 'repent' means you turn around and walk away from your sin. The problem is with the walking away bit. We can turn around time and time again, but without the grace of God to help us we can't walk away from anything on our own.

Repentance is what we do in our hearts. Once we repent and ask forgiveness, God then gives us grace to help us walk away. Problem is, many Pentecostal churches neglect the second bit. Believers are left to think they have to do the walking away part on their own. That's where the whole 'saved by works' part comes into play and many people are crushed by condemnation and give up.

The man-made version of 'repent': to feel bad, turn around and walk away from the sin.

Repent really means: to regret one's action and change one's purpose. There is nothing in the Greek to indicate we then 'walk away'. That is where God takes over. It is up to the grace of God from that point on to help us in our journey ever upward and onward.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/...gs=G3340&t=KJV

http://books.google.com/books?id=hVv...page&q&f=false

Examples from the Google book link:

Matt 4:17: Repent, i.e., change your fundamental purpose, for the kingdom of heaven is here

Luke 15:7: I say unto you that thus there will be joy in heaven over one sinner who repents, i.e., changes his primary choice

Acts 8:22: Therefore, repent, i.e., turn thy will away, from this thy wickedness and pray the Lord if perhaps the thought of thy heart may be forgiven thee

So, for all those old timer Pentecostals who think living for God means you just 'power on through' the obstacles of the flesh, they're wrong. They're living for God in a way that is destined to lead not only to condemnation, but to a walk with God that is lacking. By pushing aside the grace of God, we are saying we can do it ourselves, and we miss out on a whole host of benefits. You also push the weak into the arms of OSAS. Walking with God isn't OSAS and it isn't the old-timey Pentecostal way with a host of rules and regulations that will get you into heaven; it's found between the two.

By adding to the scripture, i.e., changing the definition of repent into a meaning that snatches power from the hands of our Savior and places it upon ourselves, we not only take on a burden we were not meant to bear, but we tell our Savior that his grace is not enough for us.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Timmy

How about people who know it's wrong, but go into it planning to repent later? (And, of course, they do repent later. )

It depends upon whether or not their repentance was genuine, or the same expected repentance as planned originally when sin was purposed. If it was not genuine, then no forgiveness. If the person truly realized how wicked it was to plan to later repent, then forgiveness is there!