Was Arron's rod turning into a snake indisputable proof that God was with him?
"With him?" Absolutely, albeit NOT "in" him!
The apostle John, in the gospel account which he was inspired of God to write, advises us that NO man possessed the Spirit as an indwelling Entity in human flesh, that is until after Jesus Christ was glorified (i.e., following His resurrection from the dead) (see John 5:39).
While many holy men of olden times (prior to Christ Jesus' glorification) had the Spiritwith them, thereby providing the power which enabled them to perform the miracles which they are credited with having done, the Lord Jesus Christ is the only human being who has ever been endowed with the Spiritwithout measure. (see II Corinthians 5:19)
The apostle John, in the gospel account which he was inspired of God to write, advises us that NO man possessed the Spirit as an indwelling Entity in human flesh, that is until after Jesus Christ was glorified (i.e., following His resurrection from the dead) (see John 5:39).
While many holy men of olden times (prior to Christ Jesus' glorification) had the Spiritwith them, thereby providing the power which enabled them to perform the miracles which they are credited with having done, the Lord Jesus Christ is the only human being who has ever been endowed with the Spiritwithout measure. (see II Corinthians 5:19)
OK. Then was God also with Pharaoh's magicians?
__________________
Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
Well, Timmy, the "short" answer would be yes! However, God was "with" them in a much different sense, in that He "allows" evil to prevail, oft-times for the purpose of showing the superiority of His power; as it was with the magicians of Pharaoh and their actions. If you will note, everything that Pharaoh's magicians did was nullified by the actions which were done by God through Moses and Aaron.
Well, Timmy, the "short" answer would be yes! However, God was "with" them in a much different sense, in that He "allows" evil to prevail, oft-times for the purpose of showing the superiority of His power; as it was with the magicians of Pharaoh and their actions. If you will note, everything that Pharaoh's magicians did was nullified by the actions which were done by God through Moses and Aaron.
By "with", I meant in same way He was with Moses and Aaron. The stated purpose of the rod/serpent miracle was to show Pharaoh that God had appeared to them. God had a backup plan, of course. If that didn't work, Moses (or Aaron) was to do the hand-turned-leprous-and-back miracle. Plan C was to be pouring river water onto the ground to be turned into blood.
Well, plan A didn't seem to work (though it may only be because God hardened Pharaoh's heart -- hard to say). Plans B and C seem to have been skipped, in favor of an even better (I guess) plan, and, well, the rest is "history".
Anyway, back to the issue of indisputable proof. How does that work, again? If a miracle is amazing enough, that proves God did it? How amazing is enough? (A rod turning into a snake didn't quite make it. A snake devouring all the bad guys' snakes did. I guess.)
__________________
Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
By "with", I meant in same way He was with Moses and Aaron. The stated purpose of the rod/serpent miracle was to show Pharaoh that God had appeared to them. God had a backup plan, of course. If that didn't work, Moses (or Aaron) was to do the hand-turned-leprous-and-back miracle. Plan C was to be pouring river water onto the ground to be turned into blood.
Well, plan A didn't seem to work (though it may only be because God hardened Pharaoh's heart -- hard to say). Plans B and C seem to have been skipped, in favor of an even better (I guess) plan, and, well, the rest is "history".
Anyway, back to the issue of indisputable proof. How does that work, again? If a miracle is amazing enough, that proves God did it? How amazing is enough? (A rod turning into a snake didn't quite make it. A snake devouring all the bad guys' snakes did. I guess.)
Timmy, I am confident that God doesn't need a Plan A, B, C or any other than the one which He devised before the first words of creation were ever spoken, in order that that which He has determined might be accomplished. Thus it isn't that your hypothesis is not only utterly absurd (to say the least), but it evidences the thoughts (i.e., mindset) of one who is (apparently) destitute of understanding the manner in which God does things. I do not state this to belittle, harange, publicly embarrass or humiliate you, but am simply expressing how I understand the meaning or significance of your comments.
Now, with regards to the matter of tendering "indisputable proofs" which serve to evidence God's abilities (i.e., power) to perform or accomplish things which lie beyond the capabilities of finite mortals like you and I.... I am persuaded that God oft-times performs what we might think to be an impossible act, a "miracle" if you will, doing so to make the truth of the matter "unbelievable."
Yes, you read that right! For instance, have you ever witnessed a serpent or an ass speaking as a human being; God speaking from a burning bush which is not being consumed by the flames; a man remaining "alive" in the belly of a whale for 3 whole days before being spewed out upon a beach; or, what is perhaps the greatest "miracle" of all - a lifetime of despicable sinful acts being forever remitted through the seemingly simple act of submission of oneself to immersion in waters and having the baptizer verbally assert that the authority for doing so is by the authority of the "name of the Lord Jesus Christ"?
Such so-called "miracles" as these are simply unbelievable, right? Absolutely... yet they are ALL true! Thus we find that God presents us with the truth by making it, at first glimpse, utterly unbelievable. So what is it, we must ask ourselves, that makes such "miracles" (as well as many others which He has, and does perform) believable? The answer, of course, is pure and simple FAITH, without which it is impossible to please God.
So, concerning the question - what makes the things (i.e., miracles) which God does to be "indisputable" truths? Simply, and only, because I believe it!! That, my friend, is what FAITH truly represents - pure and simple belief of those things which, to my finite mortal mind, would otherwise seem to be "unbelievable!"
I don't suspect that you'll readily accept these musings as truth (albeit I hope that you will).
Timmy, I am confident that God doesn't need a Plan A, B, C or any other than the one which He devised before the first words of creation were ever spoken, in order that that which He has determined might be accomplished. Thus it isn't that your hypothesis is not only utterly absurd (to say the least), but it evidences the thoughts (i.e., mindset) of one who is (apparently) destitute of understanding the manner in which God does things. I do not state this to belittle, harange, publicly embarrass or humiliate you, but am simply expressing how I understand the meaning or significance of your comments.
Now, with regards to the matter of tendering "indisputable proofs" which serve to evidence God's abilities (i.e., power) to perform or accomplish things which lie beyond the capabilities of finite mortals like you and I.... I am persuaded that God oft-times performs what we might think to be an impossible act, a "miracle" if you will, doing so to make the truth of the matter "unbelievable."
Yes, you read that right! For instance, have you ever witnessed a serpent or an ass speaking as a human being; God speaking from a burning bush which is not being consumed by the flames; a man remaining "alive" in the belly of a whale for 3 whole days before being spewed out upon a beach; or, what is perhaps the greatest "miracle" of all - a lifetime of despicable sinful acts being forever remitted through the seemingly simple act of submission of oneself to immersion in waters and having the baptizer verbally assert that the authority for doing so is by the authority of the "name of the Lord Jesus Christ"?
Such so-called "miracles" as these are simply unbelievable, right? Absolutely... yet they are ALL true! Thus we find that God presents us with the truth by making it, at first glimpse, utterly unbelievable. So what is it, we must ask ourselves, that makes such "miracles" (as well as many others which He has, and does perform) believable? The answer, of course, is pure and simple FAITH, without which it is impossible to please God.
So, concerning the question - what makes the things (i.e., miracles) which God does to be "indisputable" truths? Simply, and only, because I believe it!! That, my friend, is what FAITH truly represents - pure and simple belief of those things which, to my finite mortal mind, would otherwise seem to be "unbelievable!"
I don't suspect that you'll readily accept these musings as truth (albeit I hope that you will).
What is my hypothesis that you find absurd? I'm mostly just asking questions, so far. And relating a story we find in the Bible. Didn't think you'd find that absurd.
But now that you have defined "indisputable proof" for me, I definitely have a hypothesis regarding that. To you, indisputable proof is anything that you want to call indisputable truth, on faith. How you choose, I'm not exactly sure, but it seems to be whatever lines up with your interpretation of things in the Bible, for one thing.
__________________
Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
What is my hypothesis that you find absurd? I'm mostly just asking questions, so far. And relating a story we find in the Bible. Didn't think you'd find that absurd.
But now that you have defined "indisputable proof" for me, I definitely have a hypothesis regarding that. To you, indisputable proof is anything that you want to call indisputable truth, on faith. How you choose, I'm not exactly sure, but it seems to be whatever lines up with your interpretation of things in the Bible, for one thing.
Timmy, one of the greatest privileges that those who are yet ignorant (i.e., destitute of knowledge) regarding the many wondrously indescribable truths of the Bible (& this principle is also applicable to everything one encounters in life), is that they're granted the freedom/liberty to ask questions, albeit many fail to recognize it. I'm glad to learn you are not so inclined, but are willing to publicly express your lack of understanding things pertaining to God by asking questions about such important matters. So it's not what I recognize to be your inherent ignorance of the esoteric principles of God's written word that I find absurd, rather it is that I perceive the manner in which you tender such questions about them to be construed as such also reflects your lack of understanding the consequences of your continued rejection of things which I, and others, express to you for your enlightenment.
Absurd - completely unreasonable, illogical, or inappropriate.
Yes, that's an accurate descriptive word which reflects how I perceive your many corrupt assertions concerning spiritual matters. But because I am also keenly cognizant of the fact that there was a moment in the not too distant past when I was much like you in this regards, I am able to both accept and comprehend (perhaps even better than you might even imagine) why you make the statements which you do.
Unlike you, when a man, to whom I, because of my inherent ignorance, had verbally expressed certain beliefs which were not scripturally sound, informed me that they were amiss, I did not engage him in a debate about the matter. Instead, I recalled the instructions which my Dad gave me while I was yet a young lad - "If you ever encounter a spiritual matter, the answer to which by others you deem to be unacceptable, then pick up the Bible, open it's covers and read. The answer to every question concerning such things are to be found there."
Well, long story shortened - I did that, albeit I was utterly unaware of the manner in which I would determine the answer. I not only read the entire Bible, front to back, several times, but after failing to find that answer I sat down and typed it's every word.... not once, but twice! Yet even after all that the answer I was seeking to find remained elusive. But determined not to give up (knowing that my Dad, who at that time had been dead for many years, would never knowingly lie to me), I persisted.
But what should my next course of action be? Well, I remembered reading that Jesus said there were some things which would not be given without prayer and fasting. Fasting! What did that mean, and how was I to do to accomplish it? Go without food and water for an extended period of time in an effort to prove to God my desire to know the answer? Unbelievable, right? Yes, but true, as I was soon to discover!
And so I began to fast and pray... devoting 72 continuous hours without food or water, and was determined to continue doing so until I received the answer which I sought. And, behold, it came! You see, without even asking for it, while lying atop my bed praying, God gave me the baptism of His Spirit... and I didn't even know what it was when I received it, only learning it's significance when I turned to that same man who had informed me of embracing erroneous beliefs, and he explained it to me by going to that same Bible I had read so often.
You see, Timothy, unlike you, who seems to be so ready to contend with me and others concerning the merits, or truthfulness of the things which God has caused to be written for our enlightenment so that we might learn of that which He requires for reconciliation with Him, I didn't consult with any man for those answers.... I looked to God's written word, when at the beginning I was utterly ignorant of it's great value. At the beginning I, much like yourself, had always believed it's contents to be the surmisings of other mortals like myself.... but oh, how wrong I would soon learn that I had been!
You see, my friend, there were many, many things concerning God and the wondrous "miracles" which He had performed that I, simply stated, entertained serious reservations about their validity. But after encountering Him in such an indescribably powerful manner as I did on that occasion while I lay atop my bed praying, I now know, beyond the shadow of all doubts, that every word in the Bible represents "indisputable" truth! There is an automobile bumper sticker I have which says it best - "God said it and that settles it!" It matters not whether you or I believe that the contents of the Bible are true or not, for our beliefs doesn't change the simple fact that they are that - inerrant truths!
God will never compel one to accept His written word as truth.... that is a personal decision we each must conclude. It is my prayer that you would discontinue the questioning of it's merits, and accept His word as truth, for that is precisely what it is! The search for truth through others means will always end in defeat and despair, but His word is truth!
Hybrid Mode
