Planned Parenthood Plans 40 Days of Prayer (L)

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Abortion is a tragic reality. At the end of the day the question is... If a woman decides she doesn't want to carry her pregnancy to term, who ultimately has the authority to make the choice to abort or not? Government or the pregnant woman.

Think about it... if a pregnant woman wanted an abortion and the government said "no", the government has essentially seized her body legally and is forcing her to give birth. This makes pregnant women wards of the state. While I HATE abortion and I think it's a terrible tragedy... I'm not so sure that government is the answer. Someone has to ulitmately have the final say. Pro-choice people believe that choice should reside in the hands of individual women not state house bureaucrats.

Think about it... a doctor tells you and your significant other about a condition that could threaten the mother's life or render her infertile and states that terminating the pregnancy is an option. That's a very dark and painful moment. Do you want to have to have a board of doctors review your case and then appeal to a government official or judge for permission to perform the procedure... or do you believe that such a difficult and painful choice should reside between you, your wife, and your God?

I thought about it... and I still believe abortion is murder. I believe the penalty for killing should pretty much be the same five minutes before birth as it is five minutes after birth. (even though it might be argued killing a baby outside the womb is a bit less deviant... since, in the womb, it's mouth is prevented from screaming for help.)

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

I thought about it... and I still believe abortion is murder. I believe the penalty for killing should pretty much be the same five minutes before birth as it is five minutes after birth. (even though it might be argued killing a baby outside the womb is a bit less deviant... since, in the womb, it's mouth is prevented from screaming for help.)

Morally, I agree with you. However, legally I have my concerns. If abortion is "murder" and was banned today, there isn't a statue of limitation on murder. We'd have to turn around and prosecute every woman who has ever procured an abortion for murder. We'd also have to prosecute doctors who performed them.

Can you imagine how banning abortion and making it "murder" would tear our social fabric to shreds? It would be a witch hunt.

I was in the Army. I also had to decide to allow my mother to pass by having life-support removed. People have the power to make life or death decisions every day. The only way I can resolve this in my mind is... a woman, given the nature of pregnancy and her sovereign control of her own body, has the power to choose life or death. With great power comes great responsibility. Only God knows if an abortion was truly warranted or not. However, I can't see empowering government to essentially seize her, make her a ward of the state, and force her to give birth when she doesn't desire to. It's TERRIBLE. I don't feel it's a celebrated right like many on the left. However, I see it as a solemn and serious use of authority of a woman. With great power comes great responsibility. We can only pray for and counsel women considering abortion or who have procured an abortion.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Morally, I agree with you. However, legally I have my concerns. If abortion is "murder" and was banned today, there isn't a statue of limitation on murder. We'd have to turn around and prosecute every woman who has ever procured an abortion for murder. We'd also have to prosecute doctors who performed them.

Can you imagine how banning abortion and making it "murder" would tear our social fabric to shreds? It would be a witch hunt.

I was in the Army. I also had to decide to allow my mother to pass by having life-support removed. People have the power to make life or death decisions every day. The only way I can resolve this in my mind is... a woman, given the nature of pregnancy and her sovereign control of her own body, has the power to choose life or death. With great power comes great responsibility. Only God knows if an abortion was truly warranted or not. However, I can't see empowering government to essentially seize her, make her a ward of the state, and force her to give birth when she doesn't desire to. It's TERRIBLE. I don't feel it's a celebrated right like many on the left. However, I see it as a solemn and serious use of authority of a woman. With great power comes great responsibility. We can only pray for and counsel women considering abortion or who have procured an abortion.

Morally, I don't think you agree with me. Sorry. Tearing the social fabric is not a reasonable consideration when considering tearing the limbs off an innocent child.

A woman's right to choose whether to keep a child, ends short of killing the same. We are not talking about her right to donate a kidney...

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

Morally, I don't think you agree with me. Sorry. Tearing the social fabric is not a reasonable consideration when considering tearing the limbs off an innocent child.

A woman's right to choose whether to keep a child, ends short of killing the same. We are not talking about her right to donate a kidney...

So you believe that the GOVERNMENT should force a woman to give birth when she doesn't want to? Do we seize her, lock her up, and force her to have the child? Or do we prosecute her for murder (along with the abortion provider) if she procures an illegal abortion?

I look at it like this... I don't trust the government on this one. If my wife was presented with an issue wherein abortion might be a consideration, that choice should be up to us with much counsel and prayer from our pastor and medical professionals. I do not want a panel of doctors and/or government bureaucrats making that very important and potentially painful decision for us, especially if it's an election year. Government bureaucrats might sacrifice both my wife and unborn child on the altar of political expediency.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Aquila

So you believe that the GOVERNMENT should force a woman to give birth when she doesn't want to? Do we seize her, lock her up, and force her to have the child? Or do we prosecute her for murder (along with the abortion provider) if she procures an illegal abortion?

I look at it like this... I don't trust the government on this one. If my wife was presented with an issue wherein abortion might be a consideration, that choice should be up to us with much counsel and prayer from our pastor and medical professionals. I do not want a panel of doctors and/or government bureaucrats making that very important and potentially painful decision for us, especially if it's an election year. Government bureaucrats might sacrifice both my wife and unborn child on the altar of political expediency.

I am as skeptical of government as most. While it's imperfect in many aspects, it is what we have received, and what we have to work with - not to mention ordained by God... as they stand for righteousness.

Sure there has to be an investigation. Of course, "doctors and/or government bureaucrats" will be involved - not unlike infanticide cases being pursued now. Sure the evidence could become muddled. Infants are small and their bodies easily dismembered and discarded...

When it comes to elective abortion of a viable fetus, counsel and prayer from a pastor should be occurring on death row. For a non viable fetus the charge might be reduced to second degree... IDK

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

I am as skeptical of government as most. While it's imperfect in many aspects, it is what we have received, and what we have to work with - not to mention ordained by God... as they stand for righteousness.

Sure there has to be an investigation. Of course, "doctors and/or government bureaucrats" will be involved - not unlike infanticide cases being pursued now. Sure the evidence could become muddled. Infants are small and their bodies easily dismembered and discarded...

When it comes to elective abortion of a viable fetus, counsel and prayer from a pastor should be occurring on death row. For a non viable fetus the charge might be reduced to second degree... IDK

Hoovie... if you were kidnapped by a mad scientist and impregnated with a human fetus and doctors informed you that should you carry the fetus to term you might loose your life or suffer massive kidney and liver damage, rendering you unable to live without continued treatments throughout your entire life... or you could terminate the pregnancy to save your body the shock it might endure, including possible death. Would you rather that decision (whatever that might be) to be yours alone? Or the decision of government bureaucrats and officials?

If doctors said that you'd be just fine to carry the child to term... or you could terminate the pregnancy. Would you rather that decision (whatever that might be) to be yours alone? Or the decision of government bureaucrats and officials?

I vote... mine. If I wanted to terminate that pregnancy, it's entirely my choice. It's my body, my health (mental and physical), my sovereign freedom with regards to my person. Now, you and a million people might disagree with me if I chose to terminate the pregnancy. However, it would still be my choice alone.

One might say it's human. So is a person who breaks into your home. So is a soldier on the battlefield. So were the civilians of Nagasaki and Hiroshima. So is the person who would be on death row being executed. So is the loved on on life-support with little to no hope of recovery. The point is... there are valid circumstances wherein the taking of a human life (even innocent human life) is indeed legal. Seeing that women are citizens of the United States with sovereign power over their own persons, and they serve as the maternal host of their child, they hold the power of life and death in their hands. I trust that decision being up to them far more than I trust empowering the governmen to prohibit or force abortion.