Planned Parenthood Plans 40 Days of Prayer (L)

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Titus2woman

While I agree in your scenario Aquila I do not agree that abortion on demand should be legal or that a woman not being able to obtain an abortion for convenience is "the state holding pregnant women prisoner'... There are lot's and lot's of mistakes you can make that will not be fixed by medicine, procedures are refused by insurance companies all the time as unnecessary. Alcoholic who drink themselves into liver failure are refused liver transplants all the time in example. I believe that the criteria for abortion should be changed to being something beyond 'inconvenience'. Meeting women who are on their sixth termination because they 'can't remember' to take their oral contraceptive pills and won't get an IUD or implant or sterilization has perhaps made me jaded???

I understand how you feel. I think abortion for convenience is terrible. However, what do we do? Let's say a woman is pregnant and wants another abortion. Do we say, "No. You must have this child."? Essentially it's her body, does the state have the power to force her to give birth? Sadly, I'm more afraid of the government having that kind of power than I am of her personal decisions. She will answer for her choices in the judgment.

If a woman becomes pregnant and does not want to be pregnant but is otherwise healthy I absolutely resent that my tax dollars are used to terminate her pregnancy. I feel the government has no right to spend my money this way. That is also governmental abuse.

Agreed. I strongly disagree with tax dollars being used to fund abortions.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by jfrog

One can prove that with a certain definition of human being whether a fetus is a human being or not but one cannot prove which definition of human being is the correct one. This makes the question a more philosophical and religious one and thus something that cannot really be answered by the government.

However, there are other reasons to ban abortion than simply because a fetus is a human being. A fetus being a potential human being may be enough cause to afford it some rights and do think that sometimes the rights of even a potential person my trump the rights of an actual person.

Some would argue that the power of choosing life and death rests in the hands of private citizens every day. From self-defense to taking a loved one off life-support. There are various situations wherein a human being is vested with the legal authority and power to decide the life or death of another. Since a woman's body is her sovereign person, the courts have ruled that she has the power of life and death in her choices. She might choose to have the child or she might choose to abortion. The decision lands squarely in the lap of every woman who becomes pregnant.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I understand how you feel. I think abortion for convenience is terrible. However, what do we do? Let's say a woman is pregnant and wants another abortion. Do we say, "No. You must have this child."? Essentially it's her body, does the state have the power to force her to give birth? Sadly, I'm more afraid of the government having that kind of power than I am of her personal decisions. She will answer for her choices in the judgment.




Agreed. I strongly disagree with tax dollars being used to fund abortions.

The answer is the same whether the child is born or unborn. Sure it's a personal decision but that is - between right and wrong.

The snuffing out of life aside, abortion is generally more harmful to women than childbirth.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

I thought about it... and I still believe abortion is murder. I believe the penalty for killing should pretty much be the same five minutes before birth as it is five minutes after birth. (even though it might be argued killing a baby outside the womb is a bit less deviant... since, in the womb, it's mouth is prevented from screaming for help.)

Morally, I agree with you. However, legally I have my concerns. If abortion is "murder" and was banned today, there isn't a statue of limitation on murder. We'd have to turn around and prosecute every woman who has ever procured an abortion for murder. We'd also have to prosecute doctors who performed them.

Can you imagine how banning abortion and making it "murder" would tear our social fabric to shreds? It would be a witch hunt.

I was in the Army. I also had to decide to allow my mother to pass by having life-support removed. People have the power to make life or death decisions every day. The only way I can resolve this in my mind is... a woman, given the nature of pregnancy and her sovereign control of her own body, has the power to choose life or death. With great power comes great responsibility. Only God knows if an abortion was truly warranted or not. However, I can't see empowering government to essentially seize her, make her a ward of the state, and force her to give birth when she doesn't desire to. It's TERRIBLE. I don't feel it's a celebrated right like many on the left. However, I see it as a solemn and serious use of authority of a woman. With great power comes great responsibility. We can only pray for and counsel women considering abortion or who have procured an abortion.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Morally, I agree with you. However, legally I have my concerns. If abortion is "murder" and was banned today, there isn't a statue of limitation on murder. We'd have to turn around and prosecute every woman who has ever procured an abortion for murder. We'd also have to prosecute doctors who performed them.

Can you imagine how banning abortion and making it "murder" would tear our social fabric to shreds? It would be a witch hunt.

I was in the Army. I also had to decide to allow my mother to pass by having life-support removed. People have the power to make life or death decisions every day. The only way I can resolve this in my mind is... a woman, given the nature of pregnancy and her sovereign control of her own body, has the power to choose life or death. With great power comes great responsibility. Only God knows if an abortion was truly warranted or not. However, I can't see empowering government to essentially seize her, make her a ward of the state, and force her to give birth when she doesn't desire to. It's TERRIBLE. I don't feel it's a celebrated right like many on the left. However, I see it as a solemn and serious use of authority of a woman. With great power comes great responsibility. We can only pray for and counsel women considering abortion or who have procured an abortion.

Morally, I don't think you agree with me. Sorry. Tearing the social fabric is not a reasonable consideration when considering tearing the limbs off an innocent child.

A woman's right to choose whether to keep a child, ends short of killing the same. We are not talking about her right to donate a kidney...

[AreYouReady?]

Hoovie,

Is an unborn baby human?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

Morally, I don't think you agree with me. Sorry. Tearing the social fabric is not a reasonable consideration when considering tearing the limbs off an innocent child.

A woman's right to choose whether to keep a child, ends short of killing the same. We are not talking about her right to donate a kidney...

So you believe that the GOVERNMENT should force a woman to give birth when she doesn't want to? Do we seize her, lock her up, and force her to have the child? Or do we prosecute her for murder (along with the abortion provider) if she procures an illegal abortion?

I look at it like this... I don't trust the government on this one. If my wife was presented with an issue wherein abortion might be a consideration, that choice should be up to us with much counsel and prayer from our pastor and medical professionals. I do not want a panel of doctors and/or government bureaucrats making that very important and potentially painful decision for us, especially if it's an election year. Government bureaucrats might sacrifice both my wife and unborn child on the altar of political expediency.

[AreYouReady?]

The government espouses Planned Parenthood. Planned Parenthood believes in eugenics. The most likely scenario is that we will go by way that China is doing.

Forced abortions will more likely be the norm and limits to how many children a person may be allowed. Sterilization may be the next push for "undesirables".

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Aquila

So you believe that the GOVERNMENT should force a woman to give birth when she doesn't want to? Do we seize her, lock her up, and force her to have the child? Or do we prosecute her for murder (along with the abortion provider) if she procures an illegal abortion?

I look at it like this... I don't trust the government on this one. If my wife was presented with an issue wherein abortion might be a consideration, that choice should be up to us with much counsel and prayer from our pastor and medical professionals. I do not want a panel of doctors and/or government bureaucrats making that very important and potentially painful decision for us, especially if it's an election year. Government bureaucrats might sacrifice both my wife and unborn child on the altar of political expediency.

I am as skeptical of government as most. While it's imperfect in many aspects, it is what we have received, and what we have to work with - not to mention ordained by God... as they stand for righteousness.

Sure there has to be an investigation. Of course, "doctors and/or government bureaucrats" will be involved - not unlike infanticide cases being pursued now. Sure the evidence could become muddled. Infants are small and their bodies easily dismembered and discarded...

When it comes to elective abortion of a viable fetus, counsel and prayer from a pastor should be occurring on death row. For a non viable fetus the charge might be reduced to second degree... IDK

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

The government espouses Planned Parenthood. Planned Parenthood believes in eugenics. The most likely scenario is that we will go by way that China is doing.

Forced abortions will more likely be the norm and limits to how many children a person may be allowed. Sterilization may be the next push for "undesirables".

But don't you understand the risks by expanding governmental power here in the US? If we grant the government the power to force women not to abort... the government might eventually use said power to force women to abort. So far, it's best to leave the government out of the equation altogether, placing the free power of choice upon individual citizens. This ensures that the citizens remain free and the government remains restricted on the issue.