So Much Hurt On This Forum

[Cindy]

I will be praying for y'all. I know some people have suffered a lot of pain. You may not see it, but all will be held accountable.

I really had to forgive, it took a while but I did. It wasn't the Pastor in my case.

[BroJoe]

Originally Posted by Cindy

I will be praying for y'all. I know some people have suffered a lot of pain. You may not see it, but all will be held accountable.

I really had to forgive, it took a while but I did. It wasn't the Pastor in my case.

Thank you for pointing that out as well, sis.

It's not always the Pastor or ministers that deeply wound their people.

Sometimes it's the so called saints.

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by Cindy

I will be praying for y'all. I know some people have suffered a lot of pain. You may not see it, but all will be held accountable.

I really had to forgive, it took a while but I did. It wasn't the Pastor in my case.

For me it isn't about forgiveness (done and done) so much as never EVER letting myself in the same situation that I was in before on account of being a teenager and not having any say at the time. I am an adult now and will never bow to another spiritual Führer and even subtly welcome meeting more "pod people" since I am now legally able to give them the old "what fer".

[ILG]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

For me it isn't about forgiveness (done and done) so much as never EVER letting myself in the same situation that I was in before on account of being a teenager and not having any say at the time. I am an adult now and will never bow to another spiritual Führer and even subtly welcome meeting more "pod people" since I am now legally able to give them the old "what fer".

RW,

I will never bow to another Fuhrer either and sometimes that gets me in trouble on my job.

Do you feel that your experiences/feelings now, of feeling the need to keep that wall up make you feel isolated? Sometimes, I just wish I could let that wall down and be a "believer" but it was never worth it the first time. Sometimes I think "Oh, I could be part of a community (and be tortured). I could have something that I was a part of (and have a bunch of demands made of me). I could be a part of like-minded (robotic) believers.

Ugh.

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by ILG

RW,

I will never bow to another Fuhrer either and sometimes that gets me in trouble on my job.

Do you feel that your experiences/feelings now, of feeling the need to keep that wall up make you feel isolated? Sometimes, I just wish I could let that wall down and be a "believer" but it was never worth it the first time. Sometimes I think "Oh, I could be part of a community (and be tortured). I could have something that I was a part of (and have a bunch of demands made of me). I could be a part of like-minded (robotic) believers.

Ugh.

I will always have that wall up. It really comes from two sources: My experiences with the "pod people" as well as the (unfortunately) unique ability to see through emotionalism and see "where the beef is". My depression has made me what I am today and given me the capability of NOT being influenced by a "Rah! Rah!" artist. Honestly, no motivational speaker has ever made me feel better, even temporarily UNLESS they had some real substance to say. The good news is is that it has kept me from feeling good and going to Vegas and ultimately having to sell my hair to a wig shop.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

I will always have that wall up. It really comes from two sources: My experiences with the "pod people" as well as the (unfortunately) unique ability to see through emotionalism and see "where the beef is". My depression has made me what I am today and given me the capability of NOT being influenced by a "Rah! Rah!" artist. Honestly, no motivational speaker has ever made me feel better, even temporarily UNLESS they had some real substance to say. The good news is is that it has kept me from feeling good and going to Vegas and ultimately having to sell my hair to a wig shop.

I definitely have a wall up. The psychobabble I was raised on says having a wall up is bad but I am not so sure. Sometimes it's just a wall that helps you discriminate between certain types of people.

No one could jazz me up either with rah, rah stuff pre-UPC. However, I fell for it hook, line and sinker in the UPC.

I want to share a weird experience that has me downright disconcerted. About a month ago, I felt them "God-bumps" and a need to pray "in the Spirit" like I used to do on a regular basis. I don't do it often now. So, I went ahead and did it. I spoke in tongues and gave myself over "to the Spirit". It felt good for the present moment but afterwards and especially the next day I was majorly depressed, the way I used to feel all the time when I was in church.

Okay, so this got me to thinking......when I first got into the church, I had an amazing experience with no depression attached. However, after being in the church for a year or so, I became depressed in a way I had never been before. I stayed that way for 10 years and then lessened all the fasting and praying I had been doing and I became less depressed and more able to stand up for myself and think for myself. Now, I generally feel much better than I did emotionally at any time in the UPC........except after I prayed "in the Spirit" last month.

I thought "Yikes!" What is this thing that is called "praying in the Spirit"? It reminded me of this guy I used to know who called his wife and mother and a couple other women who prayed all the time the "depression crew". I seriously wonder now if there is some biological attachment between "praying in the Spirit" as it is called in Pentecostal circles and depression. This is just based on my experiences. I was very surprised by how depressed I felt the day after giving myself over like that after not having done it in such a long time. So much for the "joy of the Spirit".

It makes me wonder if some praying is not a mere counterfeit of the real experiences but a person can't really tell because it is so encouraged and hyped. Scary.

What if there is a very rare real experience (that I know I have experienced) and a fake, hyped, counterfeit experience that people manufacture? This experience is like a drug.....makes you feel good for the moment and then depression comes afterward.....so you then feel like you must pray again to get that good feeling.

I think there may be something to it....

[Sam]

Originally Posted by ILG

I definitely have a wall up. The psychobabble I was raised on says having a wall up is bad but I am not so sure. Sometimes it's just a wall that helps you discriminate between certain types of people.

No one could jazz me up either with rah, rah stuff pre-UPC. However, I fell for it hook, line and sinker in the UPC.

I want to share a weird experience that has me downright disconcerted. About a month ago, I felt them "God-bumps" and a need to pray "in the Spirit" like I used to do on a regular basis. I don't do it often now. So, I went ahead and did it. I spoke in tongues and gave myself over "to the Spirit". It felt good for the present moment but afterwards and especially the next day I was majorly depressed, the way I used to feel all the time when I was in church.

Okay, so this got me to thinking......when I first got into the church, I had an amazing experience with no depression attached. However, after being in the church for a year or so, I became depressed in a way I had never been before. I stayed that way for 10 years and then lessened all the fasting and praying I had been doing and I became less depressed and more able to stand up for myself and think for myself. Now, I generally feel much better than I did emotionally at any time in the UPC........except after I prayed "in the Spirit" last month.

I thought "Yikes!" What is this thing that is called "praying in the Spirit"? It reminded me of this guy I used to know who called his wife and mother and a couple other women who prayed all the time the "depression crew". I seriously wonder now if there is some biological attachment between "praying in the Spirit" as it is called in Pentecostal circles and depression. This is just based on my experiences. I was very surprised by how depressed I felt the day after giving myself over like that after not having done it in such a long time. So much for the "joy of the Spirit".

It makes me wonder if some praying is not a mere counterfeit of the real experiences but a person can't really tell because it is so encouraged and hyped. Scary.

What if there is a very rare real experience (that I know I have experienced) and a fake, hyped, counterfeit experience that people manufacture? This experience is like a drug.....makes you feel good for the moment and then depression comes afterward.....so you then feel like you must pray again to get that good feeling.

I think there may be something to it....

Praying "in the Spirit" or praying "in tongues" or praying "in our prayer language" is to edify or build us up. That is my understanding of Jude verse 20, 1 Corinthians 14:4, Ephesians 6:18, Ephesians 5:18-20, and Romans 8:26-27. I realize not all Christians believe all these verses can be applicable to praying in tongues. In Matthew 16:18 Jesus promises to build up/edify His church and I think that one of the ways He does this is through our praying in tongues.

As far as depression and an attack from satan after a session of praying in tongues--notice the sequence in Matthew chapter 3 and chapter 4.
In chapter 3 we see the dove descending upon Jesus and in chapter 4 we see the devil descending upon Jesus. In chapter 3 we see the power and presence of God's Spirit coming upon Jesus and in chapter 4 we see the power and presence of a satanic spirit coming against Jesus. In chapter 3, heaven opens up and then in chapter 4, hell opens up.

I don't want to sound like some of the preachers who talk about satan stealing our blessing, but, he is the thief who comes to steal, kill, and destroy.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Sam

Praying "in the Spirit" or praying "in tongues" or praying "in our prayer language" is to edify or build us up. That is my understanding of Jude verse 20, 1 Corinthians 14:4, Ephesians 6:18, Ephesians 5:18-20, and Romans 8:26-27. I realize not all Christians believe all these verses can be applicable to praying in tongues. In Matthew 16:18 Jesus promises to build up/edify His church and I think that one of the ways He does this is through our praying in tongues.

As far as depression and an attack from satan after a session of praying in tongues--notice the sequence in Matthew chapter 3 and chapter 4.
In chapter 3 we see the dove descending upon Jesus and in chapter 4 we see the devil descending upon Jesus. In chapter 3 we see the power and presence of God's Spirit coming upon Jesus and in chapter 4 we see the power and presence of a satanic spirit coming against Jesus. In chapter 3, heaven opens up and then in chapter 4, hell opens up.

I don't want to sound like some of the preachers who talk about satan stealing our blessing, but, he is the thief who comes to steal, kill, and destroy.

Sorry, but I just do not agree with this answer. The answer you give is the very reason I kept doing the same thing over and over for so long. Thank God I have stopped. Praying can be very good and edifying, but I think there is something else going on here.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by ILG

I definitely have a wall up. The psychobabble I was raised on says having a wall up is bad but I am not so sure. Sometimes it's just a wall that helps you discriminate between certain types of people.

No one could jazz me up either with rah, rah stuff pre-UPC. However, I fell for it hook, line and sinker in the UPC.

I want to share a weird experience that has me downright disconcerted. About a month ago, I felt them "God-bumps" and a need to pray "in the Spirit" like I used to do on a regular basis. I don't do it often now. So, I went ahead and did it. I spoke in tongues and gave myself over "to the Spirit". It felt good for the present moment but afterwards and especially the next day I was majorly depressed, the way I used to feel all the time when I was in church.

Okay, so this got me to thinking......when I first got into the church, I had an amazing experience with no depression attached. However, after being in the church for a year or so, I became depressed in a way I had never been before. I stayed that way for 10 years and then lessened all the fasting and praying I had been doing and I became less depressed and more able to stand up for myself and think for myself. Now, I generally feel much better than I did emotionally at any time in the UPC........except after I prayed "in the Spirit" last month.

I thought "Yikes!" What is this thing that is called "praying in the Spirit"? It reminded me of this guy I used to know who called his wife and mother and a couple other women who prayed all the time the "depression crew". I seriously wonder now if there is some biological attachment between "praying in the Spirit" as it is called in Pentecostal circles and depression. This is just based on my experiences. I was very surprised by how depressed I felt the day after giving myself over like that after not having done it in such a long time. So much for the "joy of the Spirit".

It makes me wonder if some praying is not a mere counterfeit of the real experiences but a person can't really tell because it is so encouraged and hyped. Scary.

What if there is a very rare real experience (that I know I have experienced) and a fake, hyped, counterfeit experience that people manufacture? This experience is like a drug.....makes you feel good for the moment and then depression comes afterward.....so you then feel like you must pray again to get that good feeling.

I think there may be something to it....

"Godbumps" - that is funny! I understand "tongues" exist out side Christianity and perhaps even outside spirituality. Therefore, I have never sought any experience in tongues apart from my relationship with Jesus through the Holy Spirit, and certainly not apart from sincere repentance and praise to Jesus.
What you describe is scary whether associated with depression or not.

After initial conversion it is not imperative to speak in tongues. I would suggest yielding to the Godbumps by visiting the sick, and comforting the poor and elderly. When I do that I feel great the next day, too!

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

"Godbumps" - that is funny! I understand "tongues" exist out side Christianity and perhaps even outside spirituality. Therefore, I have never sought any experience in tongues apart from my relationship with Jesus through the Holy Spirit, and certainly not apart from sincere repentance and praise to Jesus.
What you describe is scary whether associated with depression or not.

After initial conversion it is not imperative to speak in tongues. I would suggest yielding to the Godbumps by visiting the sick, and comforting the poor and elderly. When I do that I feel great the next day, too!

Yes, what I describe is downright scary and it is what I did all the time in the UPC and it was encouraged by all the preachers. I'm with you. I think visiting the sick, comforting the poor and those things are much more spiritual than any manufactured shouting and speaking in tongues. Now, I know some of the worship is not manufactured because I have experienced that too.....without depression afterwards. However, looking back, I think most of the worship and spiritual experiences I had in the UPC were manufactured....and encouraged to be manufactured. I never thought of it that way before, at least to this extent. Praying should NOT make one feel depressed. It was a literal biological depression that came after the "experience" and stayed until late the next day. If I had believed that the devil has simply "stolen my joy" (like I used to) I would have gone back for more.

Most of the time when I pray and worship now....it is much different than it used to be. I go for a walk in the woods and meditate on God and think of things to be thankful for. I try to be kind to people.....not to get them to come to church and be a "good witness" but simply because it is the right thing to do.

And I am mostly happy most of the time. Much better life, for sure.