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  #71  
Old 12-19-2012, 08:36 PM
AreYouReady? AreYouReady? is offline
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Re: Trinity Diagnosis

And Navygoat, I see you here.

Here's one fer you too.
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  #72  
Old 12-19-2012, 08:39 PM
Pliny Pliny is offline
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Re: Trinity Diagnosis

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Originally Posted by AreYouReady? View Post
Ha ha ha. I don't do pagan christmas. Many of us went through all of that last year. Don't want to go there again.

But....I don't mind a good snowball fight!




(Closest thing to a snow ball I could find!)
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  #73  
Old 12-19-2012, 08:44 PM
AreYouReady? AreYouReady? is offline
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Re: Trinity Diagnosis

I'm glad. I really do not like snow.
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  #74  
Old 12-19-2012, 09:28 PM
seekerman seekerman is offline
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Re: Trinity Diagnosis

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Originally Posted by Pliny View Post
Arianism is your flavor then...

or Adoptionism?
Bibleism.
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  #75  
Old 12-20-2012, 07:21 AM
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Timmy Timmy is offline
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Re: Trinity Diagnosis

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pliny View Post
You don't seem to get it do you? God is ONE PERSON manifesting Himself in multiple ways not THREE PEOPLE. The basis for an MPD/DID diagnosis is for ONE PERSON to be TWO or more distinct people.
Yes, I get it. One person, not three people. And I don't think you have it quite right about MPD/DID: it is one persons who acts and thinks like two or more distinct people -- not for one person to actually be two people.

It might help if I rephrased the questions in the terms you just used. Here:

1) Does God, in His manifestation as "Father", have a distinct way of talking?

2) Does God, in His manifestation as the Son, have a distinct way of talking?

3) Does God, in His manifestation as the Holy Ghost, have a distinct way of talking?
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  #76  
Old 12-20-2012, 07:33 AM
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Timmy Timmy is offline
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Re: Trinity Diagnosis

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Originally Posted by seekerman View Post
In oneness theology, there is one person who believes Himself to be His own son and who wrestles with two wills within Himself, doing something he doesn't want to do but does what he wants to do. This one person has a Father and God who is Himself, who was the firstbegotten of all creation.

Now, doesn't that make sense?
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Originally Posted by Pliny View Post
This is a misunderstanding of Oneness theology.
What exactly did Seekerman get wrong in his post? Point by point, please:

In oneness theology, there is one person
Can't argue there, can you?

who believes Himself to be His own son
The Bible speaks of the Son. The Son is God, isn't He? And the Son's Father is God? And God is one Person, yes? So he's right about this one, too, I suppose.

and who wrestles with two wills within Himself, doing something he doesn't want to do but does what he wants to do.
The Son's will was for the cup to pass from Him. But He did His Father's will, instead. Can't be this one that's wrong, I don't think.

This one person has a Father and God who is Himself,
The Son and the Father are one person. This one's right, too.

who was the firstbegotten of all creation.
Ah. This has to be it. It's the only one left. Did he get this one wrong?
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  #77  
Old 12-20-2012, 02:48 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: Trinity Diagnosis

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
What exactly did Seekerman get wrong in his post? Point by point, please:

who believes Himself to be His own son
The Bible speaks of the Son. The Son is God, isn't He? And the Son's Father is God? And God is one Person, yes? So he's right about this one, too, I suppose.
Please point me to one Oneness Person that says that God believes Himself to be His own Son...

Quote:
and who wrestles with two wills within Himself, doing something he doesn't want to do but does what he wants to do.
The Son's will was for the cup to pass from Him. But He did His Father's will, instead. Can't be this one that's wrong, I don't think.
Again who says he wrestles with two minds within Himself?

Quote:
This one person has a Father and God who is Himself,
The Son and the Father are one person. This one's right, too.
More or less but the Father is not the Son. They might be the same Person but HOW Father and Son exist and function are distinct. Some call that 'manifestation' and others call them "modes"

Quote:
who was the firstbegotten of all creation.
Ah. This has to be it. It's the only one left. Did he get this one wrong?
First begotten OVER creation. It is a term of status. It means as the only begotten Son of God He is over all Creation

NET bible commentary
28 tn The Greek term πρωτότοκος (prōtotokos) could refer either to first in order of time, such as a first born child, or it could refer to one who is preeminent in rank. M. J. Harris, Colossians and Philemon (EGGNT), 43, expresses the meaning of the word well: "The 'firstborn' was either the eldest child in a family or a person of preeminent rank. The use of this term to describe the Davidic king in [LXX] Psa_88:28 LXX (=Psa_89:27 EVV), 'I will also appoint him my firstborn (πρωτότοκον), the most exalted of the kings of the earth,' indicates that it can denote supremacy in rank as well as priority in time. But whether the πρωτό- element in the word denotes time, rank, or both, the significance of the -τοκος element as indicating birth or origin (from τίκτω, give birth to) has been virtually lost except in ref. to lit. birth." In Col_1:15 the emphasis is on the priority of Jesus' rank as over and above creation (cf. Col_1:16 and the "for" clause referring to Jesus as Creator).
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Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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  #78  
Old 12-20-2012, 03:05 PM
houston houston is offline
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Re: Trinity Diagnosis

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Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
And Oneness doesn't have this very same diagnosis? One, single person sometimes speaks with different voices? Sometimes acts like and appears as an animal?
Ah, the ventriloquist scene when the voice gets thrown in the sky "this is my beloved son..."
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  #79  
Old 12-20-2012, 03:30 PM
seekerman seekerman is offline
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Re: Trinity Diagnosis

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Originally Posted by houston View Post
Ah, the ventriloquist scene when the voice gets thrown in the sky "this is my beloved son..."
Or, if He was to speak from a oneness position, He could have said "This is me in whom I am well pleased". The Son being the Father and all.
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  #80  
Old 12-20-2012, 03:32 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: Trinity Diagnosis

Quote:
Originally Posted by seekerman View Post
Or, if He was to speak from a oneness position, He could have said "This is me in whom I am well pleased". The Son being the Father and all.
Oneness does not teach the Son is the Father and all.

Oneness teaches Father and Son are DISTINCT
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
Reply With Quote
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