We are officially a family without a church

[ILG]

Originally Posted by CC1

Ephesians chapter 4 beginning at verse 11 speaks to the role of the church, pastors, teaches, etc in the christian's life.

This is not to say there won't be a time in a person's life when they are between churches but those times should be few and far between and should not be for an extended period of time.

My observation over many decades is that if folks don't plug into another church in a timely manner they usually start to enjoy pastoring themselves even though it is not the biblical pattern for their spiritual growth.

Who is the pastor's pastor? (Especially if it is an independent church?) Who is the general superintendent's pastor?

I guess for me, since we pastored a Home Missions church for 5 years and an established work for 5 years and essentially nobody above us gave a rip, we were without a pastor all those years except for ourselves. This "You need a pastor" stuff seems like a crock. I wanted a pastor/mentor all that time. But could I actually find someone to make that investment? Ha! Some people are just orphans not by choice. Then, they get used to it.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by ILG

Who is the pastor's pastor? (Especially if it is an independent church?) Who is the general superintendent's pastor?

I guess for me, since we pastored a Home Missions church for 5 years and an established work for 5 years and essentially nobody above us gave a rip, we were without a pastor all those years except for ourselves. This "You need a pastor" stuff seems like a crock. I wanted a pastor/mentor all that time. But could I actually find someone to make that investment? Ha! Some people are just orphans not by choice. Then, they get used to it.

I've felt the same way for years. This last pastor certainly was no mentor for me. Just don't miss a service , pay your tithes, and everything will be just fine.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Originalist

I've felt the same way for years. This last pastor certainly was no mentor for me. Just don't miss a service , pay your tithes, and everything will be just fine.

Exactly. I know exactly what you mean.

[n david]

Originally Posted by ILG

I wanted a pastor/mentor all that time. But could I actually find someone to make that investment?

Originally Posted by Originalist

This last pastor certainly was no mentor for me.

This isn't directed at either of you. You both mentioned Pastors as mentors and I have a question about that.

Is it really the responsibility, duty, or role of a Pastor to be a mentor? And what exactly is the role of a Pastor? Other than being the punching bag or person we blame if things don't work out the way we think they should.

IMO, it'd be good for a Pastor to either directly mentor others, or have a board of church elders who can do this, but it's not required as part of their role or duty.

[tv1a]

The role of the five fold ministry is to produce mature saints. Mature saints aren't blind sheep. Mature saints are able to fulfill the great commission.

Originally Posted by n david

This isn't directed at either of you. You both mentioned Pastors as mentors and I have a question about that.

Is it really the responsibility, duty, or role of a Pastor to be a mentor? And what exactly is the role of a Pastor? Other than being the punching bag or person we blame if things don't work out the way we think they should.

IMO, it'd be good for a Pastor to either directly mentor others, or have a board of church elders who can do this, but it's not required as part of their role or duty.

[n david]

Originally Posted by tv1a

The role of the five fold ministry is to produce mature saints. Mature saints aren't blind sheep. Mature saints are able to fulfill the great commission.

I understand that. Producing mature saints is not mentoring. Maturity comes through teaching, discipleship, instruction, a personal relationship with God, etc.

Mentoring is more the act of a Pastor taking someone who wishes to be involved in the ministry, and giving them personal instruction.

Again, it's something good to do, but I don't see where it's required that a Pastor mentor someone. That's why I don't understand people who are upset or disappointed that they weren't mentored.

[tv1a]

CHRIST said to make disciples. He trained 12 guys 3 1/2 years and cut them loose. You train people to think like Jesus then to act like Jesus.

Originally Posted by n david

I understand that. Producing mature saints is not mentoring. Maturity comes through teaching, discipleship, instruction, a personal relationship with God, etc.

Mentoring is more the act of a Pastor taking someone who wishes to be involved in the ministry, and giving them personal instruction.

Again, it's something good to do, but I don't see where it's required that a Pastor mentor someone. That's why I don't understand people who are upset or disappointed that they weren't mentored.

[n david]

I see I should have asked what people's definition of mentoring is first. I'm especially interested in Originalist's definition, since he was disappointed with the lack of it by his Pastor.

Surely, Originalist doesn't define mentoring as how tv1a has described it; which really is basic discipleship. I have a feeling he meant something more involved than just discipleship.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by n david

I see I should have asked what people's definition of mentoring is first. I'm especially interested in Originalist's definition, since he was disappointed with the lack of it by his Pastor.

Surely, Originalist doesn't define mentoring as how tv1a has described it; which really is basic discipleship. I have a feeling he meant something more involved than just discipleship.

Maybe so. I see discipleship as where we learn to be a mature follower of Christ, "no more children", as Paul mentioned. I see mentoring as what Christ gave to his inner circle, or what Paul was to Timothy.

Maybe a pastor is not "obligated" to do so. But the lack of it is alrming me. The attitude seems to be , "give me 10% of your money and I'll let you work in my church for free."