Respect as Women

[Sasha]

ILG, I love how you write and put things into perspective. I do agree that more teaching needs to be addressed with the men. It saddens me to see the divorce rate in the church to be as high as it is in the world. Sadder still is that they leave their spouse and find another in the church.

I personally know four women who's spouses left them in my former Upc church. Three of the four men remarried and of those three, two of them married women from another Upc church within a year of divorce. The only man not remarried is a minister...still. Of the four women, only one is remarried and did so about 4 years after her husband left her for another woman. Three of the four couples were married for about 20 years or more.

From what I have personally seen, its the men who leave and find another. The love for their spouse is gone. There is no more respect. Their families are torn apart. And I wont even touch on the affairs that have taken place by ministry and even pastors.

But instead of teaching our men how to love and respect women, we instead focus on teaching women that its their hair and dress that dictates how men treat them.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Sasha

ILG, I love how you write and put things into perspective. I do agree that more teaching needs to be addressed with the men. It saddens me to see the divorce rate in the church to be as high as it is in the world. Sadder still is that they leave their spouse and find another in the church.

I personally know four women who's spouses left them in my former Upc church. Three of the four men remarried and of those three, two of them married women from another Upc church within a year of divorce. The only man not remarried is a minister...still. Of the four women, only one is remarried and did so about 4 years after her husband left her for another woman. Three of the four couples were married for about 20 years or more.

From what I have personally seen, its the men who leave and find another. The love for their spouse is gone. There is no more respect. Their families are torn apart. And I wont even touch on the affairs that have taken place by ministry and even pastors.

But instead of teaching our men how to love and respect women, we instead focus on teaching women that its their hair and dress that dictates how men treat them.

I wonder if this is why there is so much divorce and affairs. I remember that too when I was there. It was so disheartening. I think that pornography might have a lot to do with the male dissatisfaction. When they watch porn, they think sex is something that God never intended. Women lying to men about it for money, feeding male egos. The egos enlarge to the point that they become dissatisfied with reality.

I had forgotten about the divorce rate in the church. It was that way even before internet porn though. I think maybe the respect for women is supposed to be what is true but it has gotten skewed somehow.

[Pragmatist]

I think respect for women varies among churches.

I've been to some churches where women were definitely treated as second class. It was fairly shocking to me, because that wasn't how it was in the church I grew up in.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Pragmatist

I think respect for women varies among churches.

I've been to some churches where women were definitely treated as second class. It was fairly shocking to me, because that wasn't how it was in the church I grew up in.

What happened there that made you feel they were treated as second class?

[Pragmatist]

Education regarded as unnecessary for women, tolerating abuse of women, women coming in to clean up after men's events, preaching from the pulpit that clearly indicated women shouldn't do anything without asking a man first.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Pragmatist

Education regarded as unnecessary for women, tolerating abuse of women, women coming in to clean up after men's events, preaching from the pulpit that clearly indicated women shouldn't do anything without asking a man first.

So, why can standards, meant to be good, be so easily abused? Why is this abuse so easily tolerated? For example, wearing pants as a stand against an abusive pastor such as one you mentioned above is seen as anathema but the abuse itself is given a pass?

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Pragmatist

I think respect for women varies among churches.

I've been to some churches where women were definitely treated as second class. It was fairly shocking to me, because that wasn't how it was in the church I grew up in.

It isn't that way in our current church, either. Women are definitely respected, and valued equally with men. I'm 100% certain that abuse (for anyone) would never be tolerated, and have seen it dealt with swiftly and directly on one occasion.

Interestingly, my husband commented once about a woman who hadn't allowed him to hold a door open for her, and expressed his frustration since he had only meant to show respect. Our pastor countered with the idea that really such courtesy should be extended to everyone--not just women. It gave both of us something to think about.

Pastor T often talks about respecting people in general, and he definitely strives to do that in dealing with the members of our church. It's an attitude that spreads in a very positive way. In staff meetings, it's stressed that we are to respect church members and one another, and in staff/business meetings, everyone is given an equal voice--male, female, leaders and laymen.

I've been subjected to a very different experience in the past, and I would say that respect is tone that must be set and enforced by the church leadership. (Enforced in the sense that disrespect or abusive behavior will not be tolerated on the part of staff or leadership.)