born of water

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by shazeep

ok, but i agree with the O at "authority," because yes one should have both, yet there are obviously many accepted with neither; and we know many will cry "Lord, Lord--" the legalists, which wadr this sounds like. i think in between the two povs lies Grace.

Responding only to that portion in bold.

"Many will say to me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in
thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?'
And then will I profess unto them, 'I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.' "

Some of you folks will do good to search the scriptures. The Lord Jesus instructs man to
believe, which is synonymous with repentance, and to be baptized: he then promises salvation
for those who believe and obey!
The Apostle Peter, obedient to the Lord's words and full of the Holy Spirit, also instructs us
to "Repent, and be baptized...for the remission of sins..."

Why then, did the Lord declare that he never knew them that cast out devils, etc.? Was it
because casting out devils is working iniquity? Or prophesying...or doing wonderful works:
is that, also, working iniquity? Of course not! Iniquity is KNOWING to do right, and NOT
doing it: it is rebellion.

So, what is it that they DID? What they did was retain their sins and iniquity; what did they
NOT do? have their sins and iniquities remitted in the waters of baptism!

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by thephnxman

Responding only to that portion in bold.

"Many will say to me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in
thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?'
And then will I profess unto them, 'I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.' "

Some of you folks will do good to search the scriptures. The Lord Jesus instructs man to
believe, which is synonymous with repentance, and to be baptized: he then promises salvation
for those who believe and obey!
The Apostle Peter, obedient to the Lord's words and full of the Holy Spirit, also instructs us
to "Repent, and be baptized...for the remission of sins..."

Why then, did the Lord declare that he never knew them that cast out devils, etc.? Was it
because casting out devils is working iniquity? Or prophesying...or doing wonderful works:
is that, also, working iniquity? Of course not! Iniquity is KNOWING to do right, and NOT
doing it: it is rebellion.

So, what is it that they DID? What they did was retain their sins and iniquity; what did they
NOT do? have their sins and iniquities remitted in the waters of baptism!

ok interesting, but the question arises how these were able to prophecy or cast out devils without being believers?

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by shazeep

ok interesting, but the question arises how these were able to prophecy or cast out devils without being believers?

"Now Caiaphas was he, which gave counsel to the Jews, that it was expedient that one man should die for the people...
And he spoke this not of himself: but being High Priest that year, he PROPHESIED that Jesus should die for that nation..."

The Lord Jesus also spoke about those who "...sat on Moses' seat...". This also speaks on
the "gifts and gold" sanctified by the Temple; not that the gifts and gold, themselves,
sanctified the Temple! The Lord also sanctified positions (of authority), and then chose men
to fill those positions and to speak for Him: "...holy men of God SPOKE as they were moved
by the Holy Spirit."

Now please note that those who "...prophesied...cast out devils...done many wonderful works...",
did so in the NAME of Jesus: not by the authority they thought they possessed. This signifies
that the power is in the NAME, Jesus, and not in the authority or power of the person(s)
using his NAME!

This bears repeating: God KNEW that the son would honor His NAME, therefore God
honored the son with His NAME, even before he was born! "...that at the NAME of Jesus,
every knee shall bow...and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father."

[shag]

Anybody ever noticed and asked theirself why there is not a "the" in front of water, yet there is a "the" in front of Spirit? (Generally misquoted)
...born of water and of the Spirit"
Not "born of the water and of the Spirit".
Not "born of water and Spirit"

is there a purpose and does it better "nail down" what is meant?