born of water

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by jfrog

Right ....when the doctrine doesn't fit claim the experiences of others aren't real but that your identical experience is real.

If you can believe their tongues experience is fake what is to stop yours from being fake.

Again, you are referring to tongues. I'm referring to an experience that the bible is clear is based on the message of justification by faith alone. That's Bible. Unless of course you really believe that those who are opposed to justification by faith are receiving it. Simple logic.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Originalist

Sean continues his misrepresentations....



He ignored completely what I had previously.....


When one keeps lying about you after you've made yourself clear on an issue, they are demonstrating which father they are really of.

And I never said that Holy Ghost baptism "remits sins". More outright lies. I have affirmed that sins are remitted (denoting a record being expunged, cleared) by God at baptism, not by baptism.

However, Spirit baptism does deal with our sin nature by imparting unto us supernaturally a clean heart and the nature of Christ. In Romans 8:2 Paul declares that it is the life of the Spirit that frees us from the law of sin and death, and that those who are indwelt by the Spirit are "not in the flesh" or under the dominion of the flesh. Sean maintains that those with the Spirit with an imperfect immersion (done based on faith and true repentance and not as a ritual) are indeed still in the flesh and were not liberated from the law of sin and death when the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus came to live in them.

As for Catholics, I must refer you to the remarks i made to ifrog in a previous post.

Originalist, is a person saved prior to water baptism, If they have received the Spirit 1st?

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Sean

John 16:13...Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come....


This is the 1st reason why the Lord gives various folks, religious or not, the Holy Ghost.

The bible does not say this is the first reason he gives us the Spirit. Guidance into truth is consequential and incidental to receiving the Spirit.

Jesus clearly tells us the "first reason" the Spirit would be given right there in John 3:3-5, 16...to bring a new birth, eternal life, and to prevent us from perishing.

[Sean]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean View Post
John 16:13...Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come....


This is the 1st reason why the Lord gives various folks, religious or not, the Holy Ghost.
The bible does not say this is the first reason he gives us the Spirit. Guidance into truth is consequential and incidental to receiving the Spirit.

Jesus clearly tells us the "first reason" the Spirit would be given right there in John 3:3-5, 16...to bring a new birth, eternal life, and to prevent us from perishing.


Agreed on the "new life" passage, my point is that the Holy Ghost given to the unlearned is designated to guide the unlearned into the truth.
The Spirit of truth must be complied with.
There has been more than one Spirit filled believer on planet earth in the last 2000 years that disobeyed the Spirit of truth, that they possessed. So a person can be Spirit filled and not Spirit led. Which can send a Spirit filled person to hell in the end.
The very description of the Holy Ghost by Jesus is "THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH".

That is why the truth is #1 for us to obey after receiving the Spirit!

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Sean

Originalist, is a person saved prior to water baptism, If they have received the Spirit 1st?

I personally will not pray for someone to receive the Spirit who has not been baptized. I need to be confident that they have seen the need to die to self and understand the demands of discipleship. It's hard to imagine that an unbaptized person has been instructed in such matters.

However, if God chooses to break his own order, that is his prerogative. People who are "saved by washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost" (Titus 3:5) prior to baptism are not the norm. Certainly they most likely will immediately receive baptism after receiving the Spirit anyway. I seriously doubt that if they died of a heart attack while stepping into the water that they'd go to hell. I stress here that I am only surmising. Personally I don't care.

I know that the whole point of the question was to divert attention from all of your week arguments. Since all of my examples in previous posts were dealing with people who have been baptized into the name (authority) of the Lord Jesus Christ.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Originalist

I personally will not pray for someone to receive the Spirit who has not been baptized. I need to be confident that they have seen the need to die to self and understand the demands of discipleship. It's hard to imagine that an unbaptized person has been instructed in such matters.

However, if God chooses to break his own order, that is his prerogative. People who are "saved by washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost" (Titus 3:5) prior to baptism are not the norm. Certainly they most likely will immediately receive baptism after receiving the Spirit anyway. I seriously doubt that if they died of a heart attack while stepping into the water that they'd go to hell. I stress here that I am only surmising. Personally I don't care.

I know that the whole point of the question was to divert attention from all of your week arguments. Since all of my examples in previous posts were dealing with people who have been baptized into the name (authority) of the Lord Jesus Christ.

You do admit that you believe that water baptism is not necessary to remit sins here, Right???
You said that they are washed by the Spirit and saved, prior to baptism, right?

[Sean]

Can a person be saved without the remission of sins?

[Sean]

If not, then you believe the Spirit remits sins!!!

[Sean]

Which renders water baptism, just a "symbolic" gesture.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Sean

You do admit that you believe that water baptism is not necessary to remit sins here, Right???
You said that they are washed by the Spirit and saved, prior to baptism, right?

You do know you are continuing to lie, right?

Do you understand the word remit? Do you understand what it means to have one's sins remitted by God?

And since you are isolating one part of my post and ignoring the rest, I don't feel the need to enable you. You are foolish to do that since everyone can actually read the entire text of my comments.