Once Saved Always Saved

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

Reading down through the post, I realize that everyone responded with there own view of what they believe OSAS means. If we have not learned anything else on AFF, we should have learned we cannot put someone into a box of what we think they believe bases on a statement like "I believe in OSAS salvation".

Stop putting people into a box of preconceived perceptions, each individual is different, and most times sees things a bit different from someone else. Before blowing someone out of the water trying to convert them to something, first find out how and what they believe don't just assume you know.

Example I have discussed the trinity with many people over the course of my life. When I was younger I would assume they believed the trinity the way I had been told they believe it by my pastor. I argued from that point of view, and never really got anyone to change their view point. In later years I began to probe their beliefs and understanding, and found many of the lay people actually saw oneness, more than trinity. So I used the common ground and was able to show them into oneness the rest of the way.

With OSAS the first thing I see thrown out is "you can sin all you want because once saved you are always saved" Friends that is BS. There may be a small minority that believe they can sin and still be saved, but the vast majority believe that someone that does not live for God, was never saved in the first place.

Anyway the whole point to this long post is to ask the question, Why do you feel you must persuade this person to believe exactly the way you do? Does she not have a Christian spirit, does she not love to study the bible, has her belief caused your bible group to become confused, is her life lived as a example of Christ?
Just maybe God put her in your group because there is a middle road between the two belief he wants you to find.

I think you've come out swinging at me GD, without fully understanding what I was asking. I have no intention to make this a fight to the bitter end with her. She wants to discuss it, and I wanted to know the various scriptures/ideas associated with it. If she is hungering for more truth, I want to be prepared. If she is closed minded about it, then I don't want her to stop coming to our meetings, because the Lord could still touch her heart. I obviously know that there is a vast difference between what the hard core Calvinists and Trinitarians believe, as opposed to the typical layman in the church.

I appreciate your input nonetheless, and agree with you completely in that this is not something to wrangle over if she is not open to seeing it in a different light.

I am writing down all the pro and con scriptures, just to have as a reference.

[Godsdrummer]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

I think you've come out swinging at me GD, without fully understanding what I was asking. I have no intention to make this a fight to the bitter end with her. She wants to discuss it, and I wanted to know the various scriptures/ideas associated with it. If she is hungering for more truth, I want to be prepared. If she is closed minded about it, then I don't want her to stop coming to our meetings, because the Lord could still touch her heart. I obviously know that there is a vast difference between what the hard core Calvinists and Trinitarians believe, as opposed to the typical layman in the church.

I appreciate your input nonetheless, and agree with you completely in that this is not something to wrangle over if she is not open to seeing it in a different light.

I am writing down all the pro and con scriptures, just to have as a reference.

Sorry as usual that you thought I came out swinging at you never my intent. I understand you are looking for scripture now.
But I was directing my post more to several posters as much as the original question. As I read through the pages of post, there were several statements made that were based on preconceive perceptions rather than fact. IMO As with the trinity, most lay people do not see or understand these doctrines as do those that were schooled in them.
I will say that from my past studies there are not scriptures that teach OSAS. That being said there are many passages that teach that we are secure I the righteousness of Christ. So I can see how this doctrine might get its beginning.
Someone referred to the statement "if they lost their salvation they were never saved in the first place" the person made lite of this statement by saying "they will play their ace card" or something to that effect. This is not a card they play they do believe that. That very thought should give us reason to understand that they do not believe OSAS is a license to sin willfully. I will even go as far as to say that not one person that truly believes OSAS gives them a license to sin willfully.
But I do believe that the blood of Christ covers our sins, even those sins that we may commit unwillfully.
Finally we have made everything a sin, things that are not sin. We have become not much better than the religious leaders of Christ day, where the traditions of men are the yard stick we use to measure everyone else that does not see things the way we do.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

Sorry as usual that you thought I came out swinging at you never my intent. I understand you are looking for scripture now.
But I was directing my post more to several posters as much as the original question. As I read through the pages of post, there were several statements made that were based on preconceive perceptions rather than fact. IMO As with the trinity, most lay people do not see or understand these doctrines as do those that were schooled in them.
I will say that from my past studies there are not scriptures that teach OSAS. That being said there are many passages that teach that we are secure I the righteousness of Christ. So I can see how this doctrine might get its beginning.
Someone referred to the statement "if they lost their salvation they were never saved in the first place" the person made lite of this statement by saying "they will play their ace card" or something to that effect. This is not a card they play they do believe that. That very thought should give us reason to understand that they do not believe OSAS is a license to sin willfully. I will even go as far as to say that not one person that truly believes OSAS gives them a license to sin willfully.
But I do believe that the blood of Christ covers our sins, even those sins that we may commit unwillfully.
Finally we have made everything a sin, things that are not sin. We have become not much better than the religious leaders of Christ day, where the traditions of men are the yard stick we use to measure everyone else that does not see things the way we do.

Awesome, I get your point, and I do agree that we can be secure in our salvation but it is dependent upon our actions working with our faith in Christ (burning building scenario faith+action, or it is not faith).

I was the one who did mention that they will always say that if one loses their salvation, it is because they were never saved. Esaias refuted that concept with several scriptures, and I stand with him on that. We can lose our salvation/faith, if we turn our backs on him, and it can happen to those who were once righteous in God's eyes.

So, I believe that we can be secure in our salvation, without the on/off - saved/damned lifestyle... but if we turn away from the faith, or if we refuse to allow the mind of Christ to reign in our lives, God can give us over to a reprobate mind... and so there are these things we must keep in mind.

It is not just so simple as once saved always saved... the wording of that concept alone is not supported at all in scripture.