Once Saved Always Saved

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by mfblume

That's not actually the best question. In our chats, the best question is whether or not the work of the cross alone saves by being GOD'S work, or does OUR OWN works apart from the cross save?

my answer is "yes," although you seem to insist on the "apart from the cross" thing, whereas it is actually "carrying the cross," as the First Son did, after first telling the Father that he would not. You have not, ever, treated this response, either. Don't worry, i understand why.

"3Hish divine poweri has given us everything required for life and godliness through the knowledgej of Him who calledk us byl His own glory and goodness. 4By these He has given us very great and precious promises,m so that through them you may share in the divine nature,n escaping the corruption that is in the world because of evil desires. 5For this very reason, make every effort to supplement your faith with goodness, goodness with knowledge, 6knowledge with self-control,o self-control with endurance, endurance with godliness, 7godliness with brotherly affection,p and brotherly affection with love. 8For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they will keep you from being uselessq or unfruitfulr in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9The person who lacks these things is blind and shortsighted and has forgotten the cleansing from his past sins. 10Therefore, •brothers, make every effort to confirm your calling and election,s because if you do these things you will never stumble. 11For in this way, entry into the eternal kingdomt of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be richly supplied to you."

So, my answer is "make every effort." You have to do stuff. This does not negate the cross, when the principle is understood. And God is going to test you, to make sure you understand it. If you do good deeds expecting reward you will shortly be disillusioned. Most people quit at that point, and become Lawyers for the Cause, and start proclaiming OSAS. However, you will know you are doing it right when people are trying to kill you. Until then, you are arguably kidding yourself.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

my answer is "yes," although you seem to insist on the "apart from the cross" thing,

If yes, then why did you ask me to provide scriptures that show only the cross saves us?

And why did you claim we cannot say those who reject the cross cannot be said to be lost?

Why did you say the Good Samaritan shows love one another saves us?

whereas it is actually "carrying the cross," as the First Son did, after first telling the Father that he would not. You have not, ever, treated this response, either. Don't worry, i understand why.

I agree we must do that AFTER we are saved. But the reason I never focused on that is because you claimed we cannot say people who reject the cross saves us cannot be said to be lost. By showing the bible says we need the cross or are lost that is how I show you it's incorrect to say we cannot know they're lost.

Now, again, I ask this which you have not yet answered, despite my several attempts of asking: Are you saying YOU KNOW they're lost, but that we cannot say that to them because it would not be loving? Is the problem you have with the idea of HOW we tell them they're lost, not with the fact they're lost?

"3Hish divine poweri has given us everything required for life and godliness through the knowledgej of Him who calledk us byl His own glory and goodness. 4By these He has given us very great and precious promises,m so that through them you may share in the divine nature,n escaping the corruption that is in the world because of evil desires. 5For this very reason, make every effort to supplement your faith with goodness, goodness with knowledge, 6knowledge with self-control,o self-control with endurance, endurance with godliness, 7godliness with brotherly affection,p and brotherly affection with love. 8For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they will keep you from being uselessq or unfruitfulr in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9The person who lacks these things is blind and shortsighted and has forgotten the cleansing from his past sins. 10Therefore, •brothers, make every effort to confirm your calling and election,s because if you do these things you will never stumble. 11For in this way, entry into the eternal kingdomt of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be richly supplied to you."

So, my answer is "make every effort." You have to do stuff. This does not negate the cross, when the principle is understood.

We ALL KNOW THAT! That's why I said you're preaching to the choir. Everyone here knows that. If you want discuss THAT aspect of it, apart from what SAVES US, then we can! But your words saying people are not lost despite their blatant rejection of the cross is more important than what everyone knows about the need to carry the cross later, because without that initial salvation of the cross no amount of loving will save us. So, yes, there is a HUGE issue with thousands of posts that can be discussed about taking the cross after salvation is provided. And we can deal with that!

And God is going to test you, to make sure you understand it. If you do good deeds expecting reward you will shortly be disillusioned.

Who says we should expect it?

Most people quit at that point, and become Lawyers for the Cause, and start proclaiming OSAS. However, you will know you are doing it right when people are trying to kill you. Until then, you are arguably kidding yourself.

You're preaching to the choir again. Do you want to talk about another issue about the carrying of the cross AFTER. You said I had a good point about the GS which seemed to imply you were wrong about loving one another to save yourself. Ever since then you've been VAGUE as VAGUE can be about the cross saving us. So what happened? Did you once agree in salvation by works in your GS example, and indicated that by saying I had a good point in noting we are not told the GS was saved?