Help! Tormented dreams

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

As I read this list and came to number 15, I read the phrase "low vibrational trauma". Having never heard of such a thing, I copied and pasted it into google and this is the number number one hit:

https://raiseyourvibrationtoday.com/...low-vibration/

One symptom listed there has to do with root chakra colors.

The second hit is this:

http://abby-wynne.com/2014/07/10/why...-my-vibration/

It's an article written by a Shamanic Psychotherapy and Energy Healer.

Other hits lead to shamanistic and energy psychotherapies. None on the first page had anything to do with Christianity.

Interesting. I wasn't aware of what "low vibrational trauma" was either. I didn't compile the list. It was copied and given to me, I had saved it in Word.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by ModestMama

Ah now i am confused. So deliverance ministries aren't biblical?
If not then, I am all wrong about what I felt God was/is leading me to....which means i have no idea whose voice i hear ...ahhh this is so disheartening!

Don't be disheartened. Follow the Holy Ghost. The list was given to me and I didn't even know what "law vibrational trauma" was. And I still don't know if it meant the same thing to Burris as what it meant on the website. I don't even know if the list was compiled by Burris himself. But the general points listed are good indicators of oppression. In all things, eat the meat, spit out the bones.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

It's always interesting to me how much people know about evil spirits, and only ever and often "discern" them, but how little they know about, and only and often discern regarding righteous spirits, that is, angels.

I've told many a young man who was new in the Lord to stop focusing on the Kingdom of Satan and get your mind on Jesus. It's amazing how easy it is to get caught up in this stuff and get sidetracked.

It's so easy to get entrapped in that since it's fascinating to the natural mind.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Esaias

There are three main problems with much of what is called "deliverance ministry". Four, actually.

1. Too many people involved in it have a REALLY unhealthy infatuation and fascination with "evil spirits". Talk to any santero (practitioner of Santeria) or voodoo practitioner, or any indigenous third worlder, and you will find the same mind set as is found among most "deliverance ministries" - pure superstition, evil spirits under every rock and behind every tree, EVERY problem is either gremlins, demons, or witchcraft, life is lived in the darkness of superstitious FEAR.

I agree. Not everything is a spirit. However, we mustn't disregard things that very well might be a spirit. There has to be a healthy balance.

2. They promote "demon casting" for things that require old fashioned repentance. Cheating on your wife? Hooked on porn? Smoking dope? Lying all the time? Those aren't demons, those are SINS, and you can writhe, roll, foam at the mouth and flop at the altar till Jesus comes and you'll still bust hell wide open unless you REPENT.

I've seen this and I couldn't agree more. Sin is sin. And the only remedy for sin is repentance. In my opinion, evidence of demonic influence is in various maladies, sicknesses, afflictions, mental/emotional turmoil, and COMPULSIVE sinful behavior that nearly takes one over.

3. The inculcate occultic thought processes, where the Holy Ghost winds being "the Force", the deliverance minister becomes a special-ed Jedi master, any who doubt what the Jedi says are just not privy to the ESOTERIC knowledge and wisdom known only to the special-ed "initiates" and "illuminated ones", life becomes a live action role play (LARP) game like Dungeons and Dragons with nonstop Walter Mitty fantasies of "spiritual warfare" that create a closed self-propelled feedback loop of delusions and silliness, and a focus on learning special prayer techniques, soaking meditation, "practicing the presence of God", "entering the throne room of the Shekinah Presence" and "unleashing" or "calling down" the "power of God" which is nothing but Wiccan "cone of fire" or trad satanist "raising the devil" methods couched in Christianese. ETC.

I've heard the same thing said about those who believe in speaking in tongues, and we know all of that is exaggerated criticism.

I will say that the Holy Ghost is not a "force", it is the very Spirit of God. Now, with the Holy Ghost comes "power". That power isn't a "force" it is anointed fire of God like power that we can call upon, that is born of His presence.

Walking in the supernatural isn't the same as life being an action role playing (LARP) game like Dungeons and Dragons with nonstop Walter Mitty fantasies of "spiritual warfare". It comes and goes as the need arises. Your life might be church gatherings, car repair, shopping, chores, and barbeques for several weeks... and then circumstances suddenly have you confronting evil spirits, speaking in tongues, prophesying, having Words of Knowledge or Wisdom, laying hands on the sick, etc... then it goes back to "normal" for a season. We worship a man who was God incarnate. He cast out devils, healed the sick, raised the dead, and challenged us to have faith to do the same and more. Our Savior was even nailed to a cross and rose from the dead promising that we'd receive power after His Spirit came to dwell in us. If our lives aren't a tapestry woven around the supernatural moving of the Holy Spirit, something is wrong with us.

4. Deliverance ministries become traveling exorcists, everyone starts thinking they need to get to ABC Deliverance Ministry in order to get fixed up, man-worship takes over, etc. People actually bounce from deliverance ministry to deliverance ministry for every little problem, like junkies needing a Benny Hinn fix. I've met them, they are wacked out, Biblically illiterate, unstable, double minded, often have little respect for and use for their local assembly, and often don't contribute much to their local assembly, look down on others who aren't sold on their hype, etc. etc.

That's a pretty scathing judgment. But, I'll admit, I've seen it too. If a deliverance minister doesn't leave an individual equipped to defeat spiritual attacks on their lives or families, they create a dependency. The goal as I understood it was to demonstrate the reality and power of the name of Jesus Christ through the Holy Spirit, and then equip the saint of God to do the same. If you need to seek out a deliverance minister like some groupie... they've failed you.

Are there demons? Yes. How much detail did God see fit to give us about dealing with demons? Basically, pray, fast if needed, and command them to go in Jesus name.

That's pretty much it.

I believe Scripture reveals much more than this. But one has to read it slowly and contemplate what it is saying. For example,

Matthew 12:43-45
43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.
44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

This very short passage is chock-full of information regarding unclean spirits. Here's what one can draw from this:

- Evil spirits that are cast out of an individual find themselves in a disembodied state. In this state, it as though they are in a desert, thirsting, seeking rest and refreshment, and they can't find it. The implication is that they cannot satisfy their cravings unless they have a body.
- An unclean spirit in this circumstance will determine to return to its "house", the man it was cast out of. This implies that the spirit's arrogance views the human being as it's own possession to dwell in that it might satisfy it's sinful desires.
- When the evil spirit returns, it finds that the man's life is in order, clean, and garnished... but empty. If the individual isn't filled with the Spirit, the spirit can freely return. However, if one is filled with the Spirit of God, the spirit will not find the individual's life "empty" and will be forced to continue looking, for God has taken up residence.
- Should the individual not be filled with the spirit and the spirit returns, it will bring additional spirits with it to secure its stronghold in the individual's life and to drive the individual further into demonized wickedness.
- Jesus saw this as mirroring what was to befall Israel should they refuse to accept the Gospel and be filled with the Spirit. Satan himself would return in full force to destroy the nation once Jesus and the Apostles were no longer with them. And who can deny that in AD 70, all Hell broke loose on the nation of Israel leaving them absolutely desolate and the temple destroyed.

TO BE CONTINUED...

[Aquila]

CONTINUED...

See, just that one passage above contains far more information regarding evil spirits than merely "pray, fast if needed, and command them to go in Jesus name". One simply has to read it slowly and allow the Spirit of God to draw out the deeper implications of what is being said. It's all right there. Here's another example:

Matthew 8:28-32
28 And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way.
29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?
30 And there was a good way off from them an herd of many swine feeding.
31 So the devils besought him, saying, If thou cast us out, suffer us to go away into the herd of swine.
32 And he said unto them, Go. And when they were come out, they went into the herd of swine: and, behold, the whole herd of swine ran violently down a steep place into the sea, and perished in the waters.

What can we draw out of this passage?

- When Jesus is present, devils reveal themselves. They cry out and act-out from fear. This is seen on multiple occasions.
- The demon spirits in this case reveal that Jesus had the authority and power to bind them and cast them into the abyss at that very moment. If He didn't, they wouldn't have feared it. Now, the very same Spirit and power that was in Christ Jesus (God incarnate) is within us. Some would say that by implication we too have the authority to bind a spirit and cast it out into the abyss to await judgment and so as a result it cannot harm us or others again. I said that "some would say" because I'm still uncertain at this point as to if that is truly a reality, but clearly, it's an implied possibility given the whole of Scripture regarding our authority in Christ.
- Fearing being cast into the pit, the demons pleaded with Christ to be cast into a heard of nearby swine. And astonishingly, Christ himself granted the request and cast them into the swine. This would imply that evil spirits can not only be cast out, but can be bound to something else. Here it was a heard of swine. If we have the same power and authority as Christ when confronting evil spirits, is it remotely possible that we too can cast evil spirits into something else? There is historical precedent for this line of logic. In ancient times Jews believed that an unclean spirit could be cast out of a person and imprisoned not only a heard of swine, but also into objects. They would bind the spirits to a rock and cast it into the sea, or bind it to something nearby and then dispose of the item by burning it. Some spirits were bound to location. This is the original thought behind the origin of the Dybbuk and how it could be confined or imprisoned in a doll or shoe box. To the Jews, and I know this is nothing but lore, these items were considered "cursed" and were to be disposed of. However, if per chance they were not disposed of anyone taking possession of the item after the fact could suffer oppression and possibly possession as the evil spirit tried to free itself from confinement. While all of this is developed reasoning drawn from implication, the fact that Jesus did indeed command the spirits to depart into swine clearly demonstrates that evil spirits can bound into something else other than their original host or dwelling, even IF it was only done on this one occasion.
- Even animals have a sensitivity to evil spirits. These swine would rather drown themselves than be the hosts of evil spirits. Which sadly demonstrates more sense than many human beings who actually traffic in spirits and seek to be hosts for channeling and other spiritual foolishness.

So, from the implications found in our second passage we learn even more about the possibilities involved in spiritual warfare than we gathered from the implications of the first passage. I could go on and on with multiple passages, going verse by verse, drawing from the rather clear implications of what is transpiring IN THE TEXT. Thus, it is my firm conviction that Scripture reveals far more about this subject than merely, "pray, fast if needed, and command them to go in Jesus name". Let me ask, when you command them to "go"... where are they going??? Did you just cast a spirit out so that it could freely return or did you cast it out that it might afflict another? Most people don't think it through. They just repeat and mimic verses they have memorized the same way Trinitarians repeat and mimic Matthew 28:19. They don't allow the Spirit to draw them deeper into the deeper implications of what is written.

Modern deliverance ministries have essentially become like medieval demonologists of the Roman Catholic Church.

I can understand why one might think so. Or... might those called into "deliverance ministry" simply be seeing more in the Scriptures than what most people take the time to see?

REAL deliverance is found in old fasioned prayer, fasting, sanctification, and Bible preaching.

Is that what we see in the book of Acts???

People seeking deliverance from evil spirits under the ministry of the Apostles:

Acts 5:16
There came also a multitude out of the cities round about unto Jerusalem, bringing sick folks, and them which were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed every one.

Unclean spirits crying out (see implication drawn from the second passage above), came out of those possessed with them under the authority and deliverance ministry of the Apostles:

Acts 8:7
For unclean spirits, crying with loud voice, came out of many that were possessed with them: and many taken with palsies, and that were lame, were healed.

And then there is the agitation of the spirit of divination that mocked Paul in Macedonia:

Acts 16:16-18
16 And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying:
17 The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation.
18 And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour.

Demons were even cast out from the residual anointing and power left on the clothing worn by Paul:

Acts 19:12
So that from his body were brought unto the sick handkerchiefs or aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the evil spirits went out of them.

Each of the passages above illustrate that confronting the reality of evil spirits was common under the Apostles as they advanced the Kingdom of God. We have as many references to it as baptism, if not more. In addition, there are plenty of implications from each passage that I've not even discussed yet that reveals even more about spiritual warfare and the nature and behavior of spirits. Just to wet your lips with an example,

Acts 16:18
18 And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour.

Notice, this spirit didn't depart immediately. It departed within the hour. Anyone wish to explain WHY? The implication is in the text itself.

The Bible clearly tells us far, far more than just "pray, fast if needed, and command them to go in Jesus name". It also indicates that far more was to be done regarding evil spirits than, "old fasioned prayer, fasting, sanctification, and Bible preaching." There was a deliberate and intentional engagement of evil spirits transpiring as the Gospel was preached. In fact, the end results of such mass deliverance were masses of souls being saved as a result of the power demonstrated.

While I don't disagree that the things you noted are foundational. They are only the foundation. Much more can be built upon that foundation if one simply studies and contemplates the Word through the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

[Esaias]

There is historical precedent for this line of logic. In ancient times Jews believed that an unclean spirit could be cast out of a person and imprisoned not only a heard of swine, but also into objects. They would bind the spirits to a rock and cast it into the sea, or bind it to something nearby and then dispose of the item by burning it. Some spirits were bound to location. This is the original thought behind the origin of the Dybbuk and how it could be confined or imprisoned in a doll or shoe box.

I rest my case.

[votivesoul]

Aquila, you wrote this in post #67 on page 7:

In deliverance ministries, based on my experience, what can take the most time is confirming if there is indeed an evil spirit present. If the Holy Ghost reveals it through the gift of discernment, one can know instantly. But if the gift of discernment is silent, deliverance ministers don't just walk in shooting in every direction hoping to hit something. They want to confirm that a spirit is actually there, they pray and wait for the spirit to manifest. Jesus never had this problem...And if one's full of the Spirit, this isn't much of a problem at all....

Then, on page 8, post #75, you wrote this:

When Jesus is present, devils reveal themselves.

How is it that deliverance ministers need to take a wait and see approach, which you claim can "take the most time", in order to confirm the presence of evil spirits by waiting for it to manifest if evil spirits manifest when Jesus is present?

Isn't that admitting that the wait and see approach, which can take a long time, means Jesus isn't present with or in the deliverance minister, and that they aren't "full of the Spirit", seeing as how they are having such a problem getting the evil spirit to manifest so they can confirm its presence?

Secondly, how is it that Jesus never had that problem but the people He has allegedly called into deliverance ministry do? What, He refuses to equip them with the same ability He had?

[votivesoul]

Aquila, on page 7, post #69, you wrote:

The knowledge regarding evil spirits that people have is often based on their study of the Bible, their study of other books and materials, and personal experience...

What other books and materials would one study to gain knowledge of evil spirits, if not exclusively the Bible?

How can a person's experience teach them things about evil spirits that the Bible doesn't teach?

Then, in the same post, a bit later you wrote:

Now, what I wrote about above is regarding knowledge and study. However, when we deal with the discerning spirits through the Holy Ghost, all of that goes out the window...

How can a charismata of the Holy Spirit, like discerning of spirits, take the knowledge and understanding one gleans from studying the Bible and throw it out the window?

Again, same post, later:

The Holy Spirit generally doesn't set us down and impart knowledge on the finer details of evil spirits...And, as I said before, this means we should expect a broad range of perspectives and understandings in this area...

So then, what is the source of knowledge regarding evil spirits you claim can be had by studying other books and materials? How is it that the Spirit of Truth won't lead us into all truth in this matter, such that we have to go outside of the Spirit of Truth, that is, the Holy Spirit, to gain understanding?

How does a broad range of perspectives and understandings in this area not lead to subjective, un-trustworthy, extra-Biblical revelations?

If the Holy Scriptures are so limited and the Holy Spirit of Truth isn't doing this for us, then wouldn't it follow that the perspectives and understandings of this area would be narrow, not broad?

Next, from the same post:

As for discerning angels. It does happen. It isn't as common...

Why not? Are there more evil spirits than there are angels, even though the author of Hebrews claims that the angels are innumerable (See Hebrews 12:22)? Are these angels not given to us as the heirs of salvation, per the same author's words early on in the epistle (Hebrews 1:14)?

How then is it that evil spirits are all around us, afflicting and over-powering God's people, constantly manifesting themselves, even to the point of giving off horrendous odors, and yet, angels barely ever do so? Is there nothing wrong in this, in your line of thinking?

Finally, same post, you wrote:

Why are we so troubled by anyone who feels called to a ministry doing one of the very things Jesus said we'd be known for?

First, no one here is troubled by anything Jesus said in the end of Mark 16. What's troubling is the manner in which some undertake to fulfill that portion of the Gospels.

Secondly, on page 8, post #74, you wrote:

There has to be a healthy balance...

But in page 7, from post #69, you showed how Jesus listed seven different things the New Covenant church ought to be doing or be apart of. So, wouldn't the correct balance regarding evil spirits be that this part of New Covenant ministry is merely a seventh of the overall picture Jesus gave to us from Mark 16? So how is it all these evil spirits have so much sway and power in the lives of God's saints, even to the point of suggesting Modest Mama is being haunted by one because of some dreams she has been having?

Is that not the height of irresponsibility, to take a forum member that you don't know personally, who doesn't post here often, whose walk with God you have not observed personally, who confesses to some frightening dreams, for you to then play into her fears and cause her to possibly think her problem is not only demonic, but that the reason it's possibly demonic is because of some lack or issue in her own life?

See (from page 7, post #70):

Just something in your original post struck me as indicating the possible presence of a spirit...

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Aquila, you wrote this in post #67 on page 7:



Then, on page 8, post #75, you wrote this:



How is it that deliverance ministers need to take a wait and see approach, which you claim can "take the most time", in order to confirm the presence of evil spirits by waiting for it to manifest if evil spirits manifest when Jesus is present?

Isn't that admitting that the wait and see approach, which can take a long time, means Jesus isn't present with or in the deliverance minister, and that they aren't "full of the Spirit", seeing as how they are having such a problem getting the evil spirit to manifest so they can confirm it's presence?

Secondly, how is is that Jesus never had that problem but the people He has allegedly called into deliverance ministry do? What, He refuses to equip them with the same ability He had?

A follow up question is, why didn't the apostles have to "bring a spirit into manifestation"? Seems like they just preached the word, and if a demon was present it would manifest, and be cast out. They didn't go searching for demons, nor did they go around acting suspicious of people, "I wonder if sister Suzie has a demon? Let's all gang up on her and start demanding the demon manifest and see what happens..."

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

How then is it that evil spirits are all around us, afflicting and over-powering God's people, constantly manifesting themselves, even to the point of giving off horrendous odors, and yet, angels barely ever do so? Is there nothing wrong in this, in your line of thinking?

Angels (and saints) use deoderant, devils don't.