Submission? Or Power and Control?

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

What?

Ok, let's try this out.

Why is it disgusting for a man to have continually growing hair.

Yet, when a woman prevents her hair from continually growing it is embarrassing? Why nature? The Greek: φύσις which is translated as nature is talking about order. Everyone from Homer to Plato used the word to describe the creative order.. Aristotle used this word to describe the "process of an acorn growing into an oak tree" The apostle does the same thing when he speaks of the natural order of God, Christ, Adam, and Eve. Continually growing uncut hair on a man was the order being changed. Your idea of what if he trimmed his hair (I would suspect when it grew to the length to touch the soles of his feet), makes no sense, because it isn't about what ifs, or any Ex-UPCers hypothetical.

Revelation 9:8 points out to us locust which have hair like women? This obviously means that there are two opposing symbols one hair as WOMEN and logically hair like men. ILG? Can you tell the rest of us cavemen what is Revelation 9:8 talking about when it uses the symbol "their hair was like women's hair?" Therefore, trimming is your modern way of wresting an ancient manuscript into your modern culture.

Hair like women's hair is obviously long hair. That doesn't mean it had to be uncut. And, for the record, Samson was commanded not to cut his hair and women could take the Nazarite vow and shave their head. If women cutting their hair was a sin, it would have been a sin then and now.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by ILG

Hair like women's hair is obviously long hair.

How is that obvious? I'm trying to talk Bible but you are still stuck in some chit chat wanting me to decipher this through what is obvious in the world around me? Or obvious with the scripture? Sister the Greek word being used actually means to grow locks long. I showed how the Latin Vulgate interprets the word with the Latin word for growth, as to grow a child through nursing. The earliest Spanish Bible uses the word crecer which means GROW.

The translators and interpreters weren't UPC

Originally Posted by ILG

That doesn't mean it had to be uncut.

Did they walk around with rulers? Maybe they had chalk lines? How'd they determine what is long and what is short? Yep, this logic is all the UPCI's fault?

Good God from Zion

Originally Posted by ILG

And, for the record, Samson was commanded not to cut his hair and women could take the Nazarite vow and shave their head. If women cutting their hair was a sin, it would have been a sin then and now.

Sis, what did the vow represent and why did John take the vow as a youth. Luke 1:15? Why, what is the meaning?

What was different in the vow when a married women or daughter made the vow?

Sister, Judeans drank wine, sat shiva, and sacrificed animals through a mediator priesthood. 1st Corinthians 11 and Nazarite vows are comparing apples with lug nuts. No human being living today can keep a Nazarite vow. Yet, an Apostolic woman can grow her hair.

[ILG]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

How is that obvious? I'm trying to talk Bible but you are still stuck in some chit chat wanting me to decipher this through what is obvious in the world around me? Or obvious with the scripture? Sister the Greek word being used actually means to grow locks long. I showed how the Latin Vulgate interprets the word with the Latin word for growth, as to grow a child through nursing. The earliest Spanish Bible uses the word crecer which means GROW.

The translators and interpreters weren't UPC

So, fine. It means grow. What is your point?

Did they walk around with rulers? Maybe they had chalk lines? How'd they determine what is long and what is short? Yep, this logic is all the UPCI's fault?

They looked with their eyes. Again, your point?

Sis, what did the vow represent and why did John take the vow as a youth. Luke 1:15? Why, what is the meaning?

What was different in the vow when a married women or daughter made the vow?

Sister, Judeans drank wine, sat shiva, and sacrificed animals through a mediator priesthood. 1st Corinthians 11 and Nazarite vows are comparing apples with lug nuts. No human being living today can keep a Nazarite vow. Yet, an Apostolic woman can grow her hair.

Is a woman sinning if she cuts her hair?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by ILG

So, fine. It means grow. What is your point?

So, growth is no more growth if it is cut.

Originally Posted by ILG

They looked with their eyes. Again, your point?

Is that what is says? It says hair as women. If we go with your idea of "long" we would need to determine what long is? Longer than a man? They cropped their hair, polling, which looked like what the Romans wore. Therefore if we discard growth, and take your "long" our lenght would be shoulder? That is what the Greek word means.

Originally Posted by ILG

Is a woman sinning if she cuts her hair?

Getting tired sister?

I'm not.

I explained that already.

Do you know where in this thread?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Sis, when is a man or woman sinning?

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Sis, when is a man or woman sinning?

That's a broad question. But I feel confident that it's not when a woman cuts her hair. If a man tries to control a woman by preaching she will go to hell if he doesn't interpret the bible the way he says she should, he could well be sinning against her if he is twisting her head. It's called abuse and it's what the Pharisees did and Jesus preached against that a lot.

[n david]

Originally Posted by ILG

If a man tries to control a woman by preaching she will go to hell if he doesn't interpret the bible the way he says she should, he could well be sinning against her if he is twisting her head. It's called abuse and it's what the Pharisees did and Jesus preached against that a lot.

Basically, this is woman's liberation for the church. Don't tell her what she should/shouldn't do with her body. Especially if you're a male preacher. Regardless of what the Bible says.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by ILG

That's a broad question.

No it isn't.

Is this what you do on your Facebook forum? You all agree, then roll around in agreements, and vitriol? Sis, you should of pointed to James 1:14-15. But since the lion share of your reading is UPCI Word Aflame you may of missed it. I'm not bashing the UPCI, and just cannot stop being amazed how ecclesiastically lazy you people are. All you did was sit on a pew and sop up every thing that flew over the pulpit. You drained the Word Aflame press dry of all its books. You read them like a Rabbi reads Talmud. Yet, what you were doing was exactly that, Like the book of Mormon has the D&C, the Koran, the Hadiths, New World Translation has the Watchtower. Some Pentecostals use Word Aflame as their hadiths, talmud. But Word Aflame isn't the mission statement of the UPCI. Your rocket went off course because it seems to me you spent way to much time being taught by other things. When you didn't get answers but sneers you just blew out. Sorry, I truly am sorry, but it is not our fault. There was a whole lot of heavy lifting you needed to do. Form what I'm reading here is that you only studied how to refute Pentecostal fables, instead of using book, chapter, and verse.

Originally Posted by ILG

But I feel confident that it's not when a woman cuts her hair.

Sis, but that isn't any different than any other religion. They feel confident that they can eat psychedelic mushrooms to hear God. PO wanted some sort of parley with you and have a dialogue? Why? I say the Greek means to grow hair long. You say NO. Wow, great fellowshipping in the word. Sorry, but you have an agenda, and it has nothing to do with Bible study. You want what out of me? See it your way? Stay home? No longer attend a church? Sister, my first rule is this, I don't want to talk on and on about problems. I want to talk about solutions. You have none. You stay home and don't attend a church of any kind? Correct?

Originally Posted by ILG

If a man tries to control a woman by preaching she will go to hell if he doesn't interpret the bible the way he says she should, he could well be sinning against her if he is twisting her head. It's called abuse and it's what the Pharisees did and Jesus preached against that a lot.

No that's not what the Pharisees did. The Pharisees wrested the scripture to get everyone off the hook. READ YOUR NEW TESTAMENT. They were only concerned with the here and now, they couldn't care less about going to heaven, nor did they want anyone else to go. You believe church is a place of abuse? Where a guy in the pulpit controls women? The Bible says that the wife is to submit to her OWN HUSBAND. Not her own pastor, evangelist, prophet, apostle, or teacher. The husband, if you are't listening to that guy, how on earth would I expect that you would listen to me? You made a vow before God when you married your husband. Not to any other man. The pulpit preaches to the man, the husband. If you doesn't get it, or doesn't agree with it, then he discusses it with the elders. I know, I know, what you were taught. But the Bible is plain, wives submit yourself to your OWN husbands.

The scripture also says that if any husband doesn't obey the Word, then his wife may influence him without the word with her chaste conduct.

Still, no preacher is your head, hence 1 Corinthians 11

[ILG]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

So, growth is no more growth if it is cut.

Then, by your logic "if a man have long hair-it is a shame unto him". If the hair of a woman is uncut hair, then as long as a man trims it, he's all good. It's not "long". This makes no sense.

Is that what is says? It says hair as women. If we go with your idea of "long" we would need to determine what long is? Longer than a man? They cropped their hair, polling, which looked like what the Romans wore. Therefore if we discard growth, and take your "long" our lenght would be shoulder? That is what the Greek word means.

If we go by your idea, long means uncut, so men can trim the ends a little and have "short" hair.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by ILG

Then, by your logic "if a man have long hair-it is a shame unto him". If the hair of a woman is uncut hair, then as long as a man trims it, he's all good. It's not "long". This makes no sense.

Sister, indeed you make no sense, sadly this is why you get mocked, seriously. I already had you pose this scenario to me. I explained what was going on in the chapter. You posted that long doesn't necessarily mean uncut? Sister, the Greek means to grow locks, the Latin Vulgate uses the word which means to nurse a child. The word which is the root word for the English "nourish." The Spanish interpretation uses the word crecer which means to GROW. Revelation 9:8 shows that there was hair which was indicated a female. Since you have built your own universe out of not wanting 1 Corinthians 11:15 to be about uncut hair on women, you just revert to your old I don't like UPCI/English Bible mindset. Long is wrong, it is about growth, and not preventing the growth. You don't like that? Then I suggest you find a place to really figure out what your issues really are. Because Sister, your deal has noting to do with hair, dresses, long sleeves, or the good old U P of C. Your forum's name is breaking out? But you constantly are breaking in? I have said this before, I feel I need to say it again. If I left Pennycost, they ain't no way, I would come here to refute anything. Because you know why? You are all way to superstitious, and Sis, you are just as bad as those you rail against. That's what is pitiful. Forgive, that's what you need to do. So, why don't you tell me why nature teaches you that if a man has long hair it is vile disgust for him/ Please, please, spoon feed. Because this is way too funny. Because if Jesus preached, and David played his harp, you still wouldn't consider a thing.

Originally Posted by ILG

If we go by your idea, long means uncut, so men can trim the ends a little and have "short" hair.

Sorry, Sister, but they understood that men polled their heads, and that women allowed their hair to grow to which any length it would grow to. They weren't United Pentecostals or Ex United Pentecostals arguing over the ENGLISH interpretation of Greek, and Latin.

Good grief.

Forgive and live.