Charismatic Sweep

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Holy Roller

Yes, as in the Charismatic trends and doctrines sweeping through the Church.

What specific Charismatic doctrine is taking hold in Oneness Churches?

[Bro Flame]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

What specific Charismatic doctrine is taking hold in Oneness Churches?

Well, such doctrines can be hard to pinpoint in some cases, but I can think of a few:

Decreased importance on holiness, modesty, and separation.
The lack of preaching against sin.
The weakening of the Gospel to the point to where Jesus' Name baptism and being Spirit-filled, evidenced by tongues, are considered optional.
A desire to obtain theological stature equal to other mainline churches.

While these may not be "Charismatic doctrines" accepted by the majority, I think we Apostolic folk would agree that such doctrines are important and that many within the Charismatic community don't express their significance.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Holy Roller

Well, such doctrines can be hard to pinpoint in some cases, but I can think of a few:

Decreased importance on holiness, modesty, and separation.
The lack of preaching against sin.
The weakening of the Gospel to the point to where Jesus' Name baptism and being Spirit-filled, evidenced by tongues, are considered optional.
A desire to obtain theological stature equal to other mainline churches.

While these may not be "Charismatic doctrines" accepted by the majority, I think we Apostolic folk would agree that such doctrines are important and that many within the Charismatic community don't express their significance.

Some doctrines can be hard to pinpoint?

Ha Ha Ha

[diakonos]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Some doctrines can be hard to pinpoint?

Ha Ha Ha

[n david]

Originally Posted by Holy Roller

Well, such doctrines can be hard to pinpoint in some cases, but I can think of a few:

Decreased importance on holiness, modesty, and separation.
The lack of preaching against sin.
The weakening of the Gospel to the point to where Jesus' Name baptism and being Spirit-filled, evidenced by tongues, are considered optional.
A desire to obtain theological stature equal to other mainline churches.

While these may not be "Charismatic doctrines" accepted by the majority, I think we Apostolic folk would agree that such doctrines are important and that many within the Charismatic community don't express their significance.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by n david

Ha Ha Ha Ha

[Bro Flame]

Originally Posted by n david

Yes, I know of quite a few "Charismatic churches" where they don't believe (or no longer believe) that baptism in Jesus' name or speaking in tongues as the initial sign of Spirit baptism as necessities.

The first thing usually to go is tongues being the initial outward sign on baptism in the Holy Ghost, which leads to such doctrines on baptism and other issues to change as well.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Holy Roller

Yes, I know of quite a few "Charismatic churches" where they don't believe (or no longer believe) that baptism in Jesus' name or speaking in tongues as the initial sign of Spirit baptism as necessities.

The first thing usually to go is tongues being the initial outward sign on baptism in the Holy Ghost, which leads to such doctrines on baptism and other issues to change as well.

Okay. I thought you were talking about Oneness A/P churches.

In my experience with "Charismatic churches," they believe in tongues (most call it "prayer language") but they believe it's just an added benefit for a believer rather than a necessity for salvation. And baptism is merely a person getting dunked in front of people to prove their decision to follow Christ.

For them it's like buying a car. There's the base model (salvation at repentance), and then you can add upgrades if you want (not necessary, but available).

I spoke with an "Executive Pastor" of a church nearby about their statement of faith and beliefs about salvation. I was told they believe in the new birth and believe everyone should have the new birth experience, BUT salvation is at repentance and they "strongly urge" believers to seek for the HG and exercise their "prayer language."

I asked him how he believed salvation at repentance was the new birth, since repentance = death, baptism = burial and the infilling of the HG = resurrection. I said there's no resurrection. There was a death, and most of the time there's a burial, but they're still in the grave. Some have attended for years and never sought after or received the HG because they don't believe it's necessary.

He said he understood my argument as he grew up in the Spanish Apostolic organization, but from reading scripture he believed salvation occurs at repentance, regardless of the "man-made symbolism" for the new birth.

Sad.

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by n david

Okay. I thought you were talking about Oneness A/P churches.

In my experience with "Charismatic churches," they believe in tongues (most call it "prayer language") but they believe it's just an added benefit for a believer rather than a necessity for salvation. And baptism is merely a person getting dunked in front of people to prove their decision to follow Christ.

For them it's like buying a car. There's the base model (salvation at repentance), and then you can add upgrades if you want (not necessary, but available).

I spoke with an "Executive Pastor" of a church nearby about their statement of faith and beliefs about salvation. I was told they believe in the new birth and believe everyone should have the new birth experience, BUT salvation is at repentance and they "strongly urge" believers to seek for the HG and exercise their "prayer language."

I asked him how he believed salvation at repentance was the new birth, since repentance = death, baptism = burial and the infilling of the HG = resurrection. I said there's no resurrection. There was a death, and most of the time there's a burial, but they're still in the grave. Some have attended for years and never sought after or received the HG because they don't believe it's necessary.

He said he understood my argument as he grew up in the Spanish Apostolic organization, but from reading scripture he believed salvation occurs at repentance, regardless of the "man-made symbolism" for the new birth.

Sad.

I spoke with an "Executive Pastor" of a church nearby about their statement of faith and beliefs about salvation.

This is going to be off topic, but when I saw this n-David, I had to bring it up. I was at a A/P church in Chicago (hometown) and they call the Pastors wife “First lady?” I heard it again several other times since then. When did that start happening?

[hometown guy]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

I spoke with an "Executive Pastor" of a church nearby about their statement of faith and beliefs about salvation.

This is going to be off topic, but when I saw this n-David, I had to bring it up. I was at a A/P church in Chicago (hometown) and they call the Pastors wife “First lady?” I heard it again several other times since then. When did that start happening?

First Lady title has been around for years. Just a respectful title to call the pastors wife.