Quote:
Originally Posted by Holy Roller
Yes, I know of quite a few "Charismatic churches" where they don't believe (or no longer believe) that baptism in Jesus' name or speaking in tongues as the initial sign of Spirit baptism as necessities.
The first thing usually to go is tongues being the initial outward sign on baptism in the Holy Ghost, which leads to such doctrines on baptism and other issues to change as well.
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Okay. I thought you were talking about Oneness A/P churches.
In my experience with "Charismatic churches," they believe in tongues (most call it "prayer language") but they believe it's just an added benefit for a believer rather than a necessity for salvation. And baptism is merely a person getting dunked in front of people to prove their decision to follow Christ.
For them it's like buying a car. There's the base model (salvation at repentance), and then you can add upgrades if you want (not necessary, but available).
I spoke with an "Executive Pastor" of a church nearby about their statement of faith and beliefs about salvation. I was told they believe in the new birth and believe everyone should have the new birth experience, BUT salvation is at repentance and they "strongly urge" believers to seek for the HG and exercise their "prayer language."
I asked him how he believed salvation at repentance was the new birth, since repentance = death, baptism = burial and the infilling of the HG = resurrection. I said there's no resurrection. There was a death, and most of the time there's a burial, but they're still in the grave. Some have attended for years and never sought after or received the HG because they don't believe it's necessary.
He said he understood my argument as he grew up in the Spanish Apostolic organization, but from reading scripture he believed salvation occurs at repentance, regardless of the "man-made symbolism" for the new birth.
Sad.
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