Romans 10:9

[SDG]

Originally Posted by RevDWW

Now, was that so hard?

It's not the first time or last DW ... now when are we going to move beyond that silly argument and move to the significance of baptism ... and whether it regenerates us ... and/or remits sin???

Or God forbid address this thread???

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by J-Roc

Your reasoning here is clearly off.

You are instructed to love your brother. This is not optional, it is a command from God.

If I asked you what constitutes salvation, would you turn to me and say "Love your brother. Goodbye" No, you know you would not. And yet this is a command from God to love your brother...would it be intellectually honest of me to think that you believe loving your brother is optional?

Jroc,

If someone in your church repented and they were commanded to be baptized in Jesus name but refused.....saying something like they had been baptized already in the titles, what would you say or do? And would they be lost if they refused to be baptized in Jesus name? Would you tell them they are risking their salvation and would be lost if they do not obey the command to be baptized in Jesus name?

[RevDWW]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Jroc,

If someone in your church repented and they were commanded to be baptized in Jesus name but refused.....saying something like they had been baptized already in the titles, what would you say or do? And would they be lost if they refused to be baptized in Jesus name? Would you tell them they are risking their salvation and would be lost if they do not obey the command to be baptized in Jesus name?

If they are saved at repentance then why bother them with baptismal details like that?






[The previous statement was totally tongue in cheek and a pointed stick for poking my brethren who see the necessity of baptism, but seem to be afraid of the water.....]

[Brother Price]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Jroc,

If someone in your church repented and they were commanded to be baptized in Jesus name but refused.....saying something like they had been baptized already in the titles, what would you say or do? And would they be lost if they refused to be baptized in Jesus name? Would you tell them they are risking their salvation and would be lost if they do not obey the command to be baptized in Jesus name?

Mizpeh, I think I will take a stab at this question.

I would teach them that obedience to baptism is part of who we are, and that refusal to take His name in baptism would be disobedience. It would cause them to lose their salvation, something they had received at repentance. If they still refused, all one can do is simply put them in the hands of the Lord.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

Wouldn't confessing with your mouth be repenting?

No. Confessing you are a rotten sinner and then turning your direction might be repentance. But confessing with your mouth that Jesus is Lord....anyone can do that and not really have repented

From G3340; (subjectively) compunction (for guilt, including reformation); by implication reversal (of [another’s] decision): - repentance.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by J-Roc

Repentance is turning from sin and turning to God (180 degree), so it is impossible to entrust and believe in Jesus (turning to God) without repentance taking place.

But where does the bible say that? See my point is you are quoting this in the recent "spat" over acts 2:38 and the three step vs 1 step blah blah blah issue...this does not mention baptism. But it also does not mention repentance. If you can say it is impossible to entrust and believe in Jesus without repentance taking place then anyone else can say it is impossible to have genuine faith and repent without obeying the command to be baptized. Do we need to repent to be saved? See the other side here is not going to disagree with you as long as each side gets to define what it means to believe in Jesus

And believing is not a matter of some mental assent.

Martin Luther said it best when he said:

“There are two ways to believe. The first way is to believe about God, meaning that we believe what is taught about God is really true. It’s similar to believing that what is taught about the devil or hell is true. This type of belief is more a statement of knowledge than an expression of faith.


“The second way is to believe in God. This not only includes believing what is taught about God is true but also includes trusting him and daring to be in relationship with him. It means believing without any doubt that he really is who he says he is, and he will do all he says he will do. I wouldn’t believe any person to this same degree, no matter how highly others might praise him. It’s easy to believe that someone is godly, but it’s another matter to completely rely on him.


“A person who believes in God believes everything written about God in Scripture. He dares to believe this in life and in death. This faith makes a person a true Christian and gives him everything he desires from God. A person with an evil, hypocritical heart can’t have this type of faith, for it’s a living faith, as described in the first commandment: “I am the LORD your God . . . Never have any other god” (Exodus 20:2-3).

Yet Martin Luther believed in Roman Catholic Baptismal Regeneration and infant baptism.

[J-Roc]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Jroc,

If someone in your church repented and they were commanded to be baptized in Jesus name but refused.....saying something like they had been baptized already in the titles, what would you say or do? And would they be lost if they refused to be baptized in Jesus name? Would you tell them they are risking their salvation and would be lost if they do not obey the command to be baptized in Jesus name?

There is precedent for how one could approach such situations. I would simply take the approach of Priscilla and Aquila when they dealt with Apollos. Now, in your scenario, you are using a word there that raises some red flags, you said they "refused". Now maybe you wrote this out in haste, but I'd be suspicious about anyone coming across so aggressively as to "refuse". It gives a picture of stubborn rebelliousness and someone that may not be teachable. I'd feel the same way toward someone who refused to love their brother.

Meanwhile a Jew named Apollos, a native of Alexandria, came to Ephesus. He was a learned man, with a thorough knowledge of the Scriptures. He had been instructed in the way of the Lord, and he spoke with great fervor and taught about Jesus accurately, though he knew only the baptism of John. He began to speak boldly in the synagogue. When Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they invited him to their home and explained to him the way of God more adequately. (Acts 18)

[J-Roc]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

No. Confessing you are a rotten sinner and then turning your direction might be repentance. But confessing with your mouth that Jesus is Lord....anyone can do that and not really have repented

From G3340; (subjectively) compunction (for guilt, including reformation); by implication reversal (of [another’s] decision): - repentance.

Well, then, if confessing with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believing in your heart that God raised him from the dead does not imply that repentance has taken place (that is, that one has turned to God in sorrow), then what does Romans 10:9-10 mean to you, Prax? How do you interpret Paul's directives here?

[J-Roc]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

But where does the bible say that?

What part are you referring to when you say "that".

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by J-Roc

Well, then, if confessing with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believing in your heart that God raised him from the dead does not imply that repentance has taken place (that is, that one has turned to God in sorrow), then what does Romans 10:9-10 mean to you, Prax? How do you interpret Paul's directives here?

I didn't say it does not imply repentance has taken place