Romans 10:9

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by J-Roc

Here's a powerful scripture for ya...


If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is by believing in your heart that you are made right with God, and it is by confessing with your mouth that you are saved. (Romans 10:9-10)

Does that mean we don't need to repent?

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Does that mean we don't need to repent?

Wouldn't confessing with your mouth be repenting?

Originally Posted by rgcraig

Wouldn't confessing with your mouth be repenting?

Nope. It's idle words.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Adino

Anyone, when the serpent was placed on the pole in the wilderness.... did the children of Israel need to be baptized and speak in tongues in order to be healed?

The answer to this is pertinent to John 3:14-18 and to the point of this thread.

For your convenience:

Numbers 21:8-9

And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live. 9And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.

John 3:14-18

And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

I believe this is one of the most potent scripture for salvation by faith alone thru grace. This does not negate repentance, baptism or spirit infilling at all, simply that one is secure just as those that believed Moses and looked in faith upon the brazen serpent, were immediately healed.

Well done, Adino!!

[J-Roc]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Does that mean we don't need to repent?

Repentance is turning from sin and turning to God (180 degree), so it is impossible to entrust and believe in Jesus (turning to God) without repentance taking place.

And believing is not a matter of some mental assent.

Martin Luther said it best when he said:

“There are two ways to believe. The first way is to believe about God, meaning that we believe what is taught about God is really true. It’s similar to believing that what is taught about the devil or hell is true. This type of belief is more a statement of knowledge than an expression of faith.


“The second way is to believe in God. This not only includes believing what is taught about God is true but also includes trusting him and daring to be in relationship with him. It means believing without any doubt that he really is who he says he is, and he will do all he says he will do. I wouldn’t believe any person to this same degree, no matter how highly others might praise him. It’s easy to believe that someone is godly, but it’s another matter to completely rely on him.


“A person who believes in God believes everything written about God in Scripture. He dares to believe this in life and in death. This faith makes a person a true Christian and gives him everything he desires from God. A person with an evil, hypocritical heart can’t have this type of faith, for it’s a living faith, as described in the first commandment: “I am the LORD your God . . . Never have any other god” (Exodus 20:2-3).

[Adino]

Originally Posted by crakjak

....secure just as those that believed Moses and looked in faith upon the brazen serpent, were immediately healed.

Absolutely! And, as you mentioned, this point was being made as further explanation for someone being born from above. Connect this passage with the multiple times John says the believer is passed from death unto life and/or that the believer HAS eternal life, and it seems nonsensical to force anything apart from faith alone into the salvation experience.

Seems straightforward enough for me.

[Adino]

Originally Posted by J-Roc

Repentance is turning from sin and turning to God (180 degree), so it is impossible to entrust and believe in Jesus (turning to God) without repentance taking place.

Very good. Jesus Christ is the object of faith the repenting heart turns to for salvation. Faith being knowledge (notitia) + theoretical mental assent (assensus) + trust (fiducia). The heart returning to God (repenting) does so through faith in Christ. The heart returns to God through a knowledge of Christ, a theoretical mental assent of his person and work, and a complete dependency upon him for healing/salvation/life. He that believes (has faith) in Christ is passed from death unto life (John 5:24).

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Adino

Very good. Jesus Christ is the object of faith the repenting heart turns to for salvation. Faith being knowledge (notitia) + theoretical mental assent (assensus) + trust (fiducia). The heart returning to God (repenting) does so through faith in Christ. The heart returns to God through a knowledge of Christ, a theoretical mental assent of his person and work, and a complete dependency upon him for healing/salvation/life. He that believes (has faith) in Christ is passed from death unto life (John 5:24).

Faith operates repentance but is absent in baptism??????????? Please explain???
Why is it you faith only folks cannot see the operation of faith in doing what the Word says to do? It becomes a work thus faith is subtracted out of the equation? But baptism without faith is an empty ritual without any merit whatsoever.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Faith operates repentance but is absent in baptism??????????? Please explain???
Why is it you faith only folks cannot see the operation of faith in doing what the Word says to do? It becomes a work thus faith is subtracted out of the equation? But baptism without faith is an empty ritual without any merit whatsoever.

Hmmm ... I've never read Adino say such a thing. Seems like this a strawman.

[Adino]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Faith operates repentance but is absent in baptism??????????? Please explain???
Why is it you faith only folks cannot see the operation of faith in doing what the Word says to do? It becomes a work thus faith is subtracted out of the equation? But baptism without faith is an empty ritual without any merit whatsoever.

Steve, when, oh when, will you cease to say the fruits of your salvation save you? Acts of faith are the external outcroppings of a heart of faith. They are fruits which bear witness to a very present and internal spiritual reality. We are to work out our salvation (Philippians 2:12).... meaning, we are to let the reality of our salvation become externally manifest in our daily lives. A regenerate heart will engender regenerate behavior, but please stop making the mistake of saying that regenerate behavior engenders a regenerate heart. This is backwards theology.

Love you anyway, Bro.