The Blood of Jesus was shed when He died. Not when He was buried.
It stands to reason then that the Blood is "applied" when we die to sins at repentance. We are then baptized to separate (and remove us) from our sins, or take away (remove, wash) our sins. Look at the Tabernacle in the wilderness. The altar was where the Blood was spilled (death to sin). The Laver (water) separated sin from the Holy Place. Death, Burial, Resurrection. Repentance, baptism, Holy Ghost. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
It takes all three to complete the work of salvation just as it took death, burial and resurrection to complete the work of Salvation at the Cross.
A repented person lost because he hasn't OBEYED the Scripture? I'm driving down the road doing the posted speed limit. I'm pulled over for driving too fast in a school zone even though the school zone is 5 miles further down the road. Make sense? No. A person sincerely repents of his sins, and God witholds forgiveness until he is baptized? Until he recieves the Holy Ghost? Until he gets full understanding of the Godhead? Until he obeys the "standards"? Salvation isn't a carrot dangled just out of reach. It is a free gift of God for all who will repent of their sins. Baptism is necessary to continue in God, but, it isn't a requirement to begin in God. God will grant salvation to anyone who repents of their sins. If not, John 3:16 is a lie.
So, beat on me awhile... this old horse has been beaten enough.
this is a great post and I find a lot that i can agree with buuuuut....
the bible says
believe for salvation
repent for salvation
be baptized for salvation...
we cant ignor any part can we?
Can you provide biblical reference to water baptism "saving" us? There is implication that the believer will obey...but water baptism doesn't "save" us.
Can you provide biblical reference to water baptism "saving" us? There is implication that the believer will obey...but water baptism doesn't "save" us.
lets see, off the top of my head? Mark 16:16 he that believes and is baptized shall be saved. 1 Peter 3:21 baptism now saves you... Gal 3:27 for as many as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
lets see, off the top of my head? Mark 16:16 he that believes and is baptized shall be saved.
But... "he that believeth not shall be damned." It doesn't say "He that is baptized not shall be damned..." The key component necessary for salvation here is belief, not baptism. He that believeth will of course be baptized, but it is the belief in what Jesus Christ has done that saves us.
"21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ..."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd
Gal 3:27 for as many as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
The context is again key:
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. (Justified by faith, not by baptism!)
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
But... "he that believeth not shall be damned." It doesn't say "He that is baptized not shall be damned..." The key component necessary for salvation here is belief, not baptism. He that believeth will of course be baptized, but it is the belief in what Jesus Christ has done that saves us.
No one ever answered my question about this verse. How does batism save us? Well, the answer is right there in the verse:
"21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ..."
The context is again key:
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. (Justified by faith, not by baptism!)
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
LOL lets begin at the end. Nobody here believes we arent justified by faith! Can you please drop that tired argument?
next, im not trying to build a doctrine on these 3 scriptures! my point is, that YOU cannot point to a scripture that says what John 3:16 says and build a doctrine on that.
the POINT my dear friend, is that we must include it all, or we have nothing.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
LOL lets begin at the end. Nobody here believes we arent justified by faith! Can you please drop that tired argument?
next, im not trying to build a doctrine on these 3 scriptures! my point is, that YOU cannot point to a scripture that says what John 3:16 says and build a doctrine on that.
the POINT my dear friend, is that we must include it all, or we have nothing.
Thanks. But did you catch my earlier point about the "two sides of the coin" and the fundamental paradox that exists within this discussion? In our salvation there are two apparently contradictory things happening.
1. We choose to be saved because we desire salvation (Joshua 24:15, et al.).
Notice how that even before we could make a choice, God chose us to be His children. In the verses above, the ones from Philippians through Titus emphasize that even when we could not make such a choice due to our sinful nature, God's grace intervened and He chose us for salvation.
He chose, He did the work; not just at Calvary, but the work in our hearts that made us desire Him.
Of course the other side of the coin is in #1 above: in this time, in this life, before it's too late! - we must make a decision about what we are going to do about this calling we have.
There are two ways to look at it, and to even begin to understand God's plan for us we need to look at both sides of the coin.
Thanks. But did you catch my earlier point about the "two sides of the coin" and the fundamental paradox that exists within this discussion? In our salvation there are two apparently contradictory things happening.
1. We choose to be saved because we desire salvation (Joshua 24:15, et al.).
Notice how that even before we could make a choice, God chose us to be His children. In the verses above, the ones from Philippians through Titus emphasize that even when we could not make such a choice due to our sinful nature, God's grace intervened and He chose us for salvation.
He chose, He did the work; not just at Calvary, but the work in our hearts that made us desire Him.
Of course the other side of the coin is in #1 above: in this time, in this life, before it's too late! - we must make a decision about what we are going to do about this calling we have.
There are two ways to look at it, and to even begin to understand God's plan for us we need to look at both sides of the coin.
Yes and I like your paradox. in fact, ive come close to quoting you a time or two. I think the paradox is a great position and it strikes a cord with many of these things that I see in scripture.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
lets see, off the top of my head? Mark 16:16 he that believes and is baptized shall be saved. 1 Peter 3:21 baptism now saves you... Gal 3:27 for as many as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Let's look at this in context:
Mark 16:16 essentially takes for granted that a believer will be water baptized, it doesn't set it as a requirement.
1 Peter indicates that water baptism saves us by clensing our conscience.
Gal. 3:27 only states that baptism is a type of putting on Christ.
Hybrid Mode
