Agenda Driven or Accepting of Diversity?

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Apprehended

It is so sad to see so many willing to break fellowship over resolution 4.... I wonder if they really understand the extent of the crime of dividing up the body of Christ? Is it not a testimony of the waining fires of love and the diminishing of light? If our walking together depended on agreeing with every single thing, I am afraid that we would walk alone. Where there is the absence of pride and the presence of humility of mind and spirit, there is no problem of walking together on the basis of the many things that we DO agree on...hence, the body of Christ is joined and strengthened.

I would agree with you that Jesus accepts everyone who comes to him in faith and repentance. I differ with you on when forgiveness of sins occur and what the new birth is BUT I am able to walk together with you on the basis of the many things we do agree on. I believe this common ground was the basis of the merger of the PAJC and PCI into the UPC years ago.

Paul said he could put up with those who did not believe exactly as he did Romans 14 until those folks became intolerant (forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats), and departed from the faith, then he warned Timothy of them. 1 Tim 4:1-5 Even in the early days of the church there were some that withdrew themselves from the body. There is nothing new under the sun.

BTW, I'm a sister!

[Apprehended]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

I would agree with you that Jesus accepts everyone who comes to him in faith and repentance. I differ with you on when forgiveness of sins occur and what the new birth is BUT I am able to walk together with you on the basis of the many things we do agree on. I believe this common ground was the basis of the merger of the PAJC and PCI into the UPC years ago.

Paul said he could put up with those who did not believe exactly as he did Romans 14 until those folks became intolerant (forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats), and departed from the faith, then he warned Timothy of them. 1 Tim 4:1-5 Even in the early days of the church there were some that withdrew themselves from the body. There is nothing new under the sun.

BTW, I'm a sister!

Sister?

Of course. I knew that. Sorry.

The only difference in the PCI stance and that of my own, which may be somewhere between the PCI's and the that of the PAJC is that I do not believe anyone can be saved "to eternity" without obeying the whole Gospel including Baptism in the name of Jesus and receiving the Holy Ghost when they have the light on it. The PCI stance is that they could be saved to eternity short of it even if they DO have the light of it.

I know, I know this slight difference causes me to be misunderstood by both the PCI leaning group and the PAJC leaning group too. It is my position and understanding of the Word of God that give me peace of mind concerning the many martyrs that died trusting in and loving Jesus, never having denied their faith in him.

The other day, I told of a true story about some martyrs in Russia. It was discredited as an urban myth. So, I got down my Fox Book of Martyrs and begun reading. I was so moved as I read the most heart breaking stories of faithful men and women who gave up their lives for the love of Jesus that was deep in their heart. Again, I was moved to tears as I examined my ownself questioning if I could stand up under the same tortune and death. I wept as I told the Lord that it was my intentions to have the same resolve as His love abides in me as deeply as it did in them.

But, in it all, "Sirs, we would see Jesus." Sister, I only want to see Jesus in you.

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by Apprehended

Sister?

Of course. I knew that. Sorry.

The only difference in the PCI stance and that of my own, which may be somewhere between the PCI's and the that of the PAJC is that I do not believe anyone can be saved "to eternity" without obeying the whole Gospel including Baptism in the name of Jesus and receiving the Holy Ghost when they have the light on it. The PCI stance is that they could be saved to eternity short of it even if they DO have the light of it.
I know, I know this slight difference causes me to be misunderstood by both the PCI leaning group and the PAJC leaning group too. It is my position and understanding of the Word of God that give me peace of mind concerning the many martyrs that died trusting in and loving Jesus, never having denied their faith in him.

The other day, I told of a true story about some martyrs in Russia. It was discredited as an urban myth. So, I got down my Fox Book of Martyrs and begun reading. I was so moved as I read the most heart breaking stories of faithful men and women who gave up their lives for the love of Jesus that was deep in their heart. Again, I was moved to tears as I examined my ownself questioning if I could stand up under the same tortune and death. I wept as I told the Lord that it was my intentions to have the same resolve as His love abides in me as deeply as it did in them.

But, in it all, "Sirs, we would see Jesus." Sister, I only want to see Jesus in you.

It saddens me that you have either hidden this view from me for a long time, or changed to this view in the last little while. IF one can be saved "to eternity" without baptism in Jesus Name if they never hear of it, it would behove us not to preach it ever again to ANY group that does not believe it that way, as by doing so we doom them that do not accept it to hell.

IF Jesus Name baptism is not necessary for salvation "to eternity" for the unknowing person (even though God no longer winks at ignorance) then it is not necessary for anyone. Either the plan of salvation is firm and solid (a clear note) or we need to stop preaching it as truth.

[Apprehended]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

It saddens me that you have either hidden this view from me for a long time, or changed to this view in the last little while. IF one can be saved "to eternity" without baptism in Jesus Name if they never hear of it, it would behove us not to preach it ever again to ANY group that does not believe it that way, as by doing so we doom them that do not accept it to hell.

IF Jesus Name baptism is not necessary for salvation "to eternity" for the unknowing person (even though God no longer winks at ignorance) then it is not necessary for anyone. Either the plan of salvation is firm and solid (a clear note) or we need to stop preaching it as truth.

Don't be sad my dearest friend...

Be of good cheer. I am building a shed right now, but I wll be back to take my time to give you a careful explanation that will surely gladen your sanctified heart. I take my breaks now and then to come in for a drink of water etc., and check in on what is happening here.

I have not changed my mind about any of these things but once it is fully clear what the Word teaches in this regard, I am sure that you will be happy, as the Word offers hope and makes glad the hopeful. It is still imperative to fully obey God and to walk in the light lest the blood of Jesus is rendered void.

I just need a little more time to thoughtfully and fully answer your question and to cheer your heart. You will be happy with the answer.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Apprehended

Sister?

Of course. I knew that. Sorry.

The only difference in the PCI stance and that of my own, which may be somewhere between the PCI's and the that of the PAJC is that I do not believe anyone can be saved "to eternity" without obeying the whole Gospel including Baptism in the name of Jesus and receiving the Holy Ghost when they have the light on it. The PCI stance is that they could be saved to eternity short of it even if they DO have the light of it.

I know, I know this slight difference causes me to be misunderstood by both the PCI leaning group and the PAJC leaning group too. It is my position and understanding of the Word of God that give me peace of mind concerning the many martyrs that died trusting in and loving Jesus, never having denied their faith in him.

The other day, I told of a true story about some martyrs in Russia. It was discredited as an urban myth. So, I got down my Fox Book of Martyrs and begun reading. I was so moved as I read the most heart breaking stories of faithful men and women who gave up their lives for the love of Jesus that was deep in their heart. Again, I was moved to tears as I examined my ownself questioning if I could stand up under the same tortune and death. I wept as I told the Lord that it was my intentions to have the same resolve as His love abides in me as deeply as it did in them.

But, in it all, "Sirs, we would see Jesus." Sister, I only want to see Jesus in you.

Seeing Jesus is without a doubt the best way of looking at people whether they are saved or not. Maybe you should have this in your signature line so when you and I disagree on some aspect of doctrine, I can read that and temper my responses to you!

I've read some of your posts on the light doctrine but don't recall you giving scriptural proofs. I'm interested in knowing what verses in the word of God makes you believe the light doctrine. If you don't have time to explain it, maybe you know of a link to the teaching. Thanks

Oh, one other thing, what exactly do you mean by "when they have the light on it". Some folks have heard about Jesus name baptism and speaking in tongues when one receives the Holy Spirit but is hearing about it considered "having the light" or is believing in it "having the light"? I had heard of Jesus Christ all of my life but I didn't believe in Him until my early twenties. Did I have the light before I repented?

[Sherri]

Apprehended, I just want to say that I appreciate everything you have written on this thread. Your attitude is godly and your writings are anointed.

[Apprehended]

Originally Posted by Sherri

Apprehended, I just want to say that I appreciate everything you have written on this thread. Your attitude is godly and your writings are anointed.

Thank you Sister Cupples...

[Apprehended]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Seeing Jesus is without a doubt the best way of looking at people whether they are saved or not. Maybe you should have this in your signature line so when you and I disagree on some aspect of doctrine, I can read that and temper my responses to you!

I've read some of your posts on the light doctrine but don't recall you giving scriptural proofs. I'm interested in knowing what verses in the word of God makes you believe the light doctrine. If you don't have time to explain it, maybe you know of a link to the teaching. Thanks

Oh, one other thing, what exactly do you mean by "when they have the light on it". Some folks have heard about Jesus name baptism and speaking in tongues when one receives the Holy Spirit but is hearing about it considered "having the light" or is believing in it "having the light"? I had heard of Jesus Christ all of my life but I didn't believe in Him until my early twenties. Did I have the light before I repented?

Please read my answer to Matthew. Your objection seems to be the same as his. I will be happy to give scripture to fully explain those wonderful things that I see in the Word of God. I am building a shed and only check in when I come in for a break. But, I will indeed answer with scripture, my understanding of the Word of God that gives HOPE.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Apprehended

Please read my answer to Matthew. Your objection seems to be the same as his. I will be happy to give scripture to fully explain those wonderful things that I see in the Word of God. I am building a shed and only check in when I come in for a break. But, I will indeed answer with scripture, my understanding of the Word of God that gives HOPE.

If you're done with your shed, would you mind explaining the light doctrine from scripture?

[Apprehended]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

If you're done with your shed, would you mind explaining the light doctrine from scripture?

I have been praying about it because I realize the heavy implication may have an everlasting affect on someone that I would not want to be hurt by something said but misunderstood. I want to be careful and spiritually thoughtful considering all things.

Look for my answer one day this coming week even though I am going to have to be in Houston, Shreveport and Jackson Miss all this coming week plus some points in between.