One of the Biggest Mistakes

[Cindy]

To ILG and others that have suffered pain from any pastor or organization. I am so sorry you were hurt at a place that should be a sanctuary, or a place free from pain. I did not intend to just shrug off your feelings. I re-read your original post and saw it differently than I did the first time.
I am glad you have found a church that you are happier in.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by cneasttx

To ILG and others that have suffered pain from any pastor or organization. I am so sorry you were hurt at a place that should be a sanctuary, or a place free from pain. I did not intend to just shrug off your feelings. I re-read your original post and saw it differently than I did the first time.
I am glad you have found a church that you are happier in.

Thanks cneattx. I don't talk too much about the extent of things in my life. This that I wrote today I felt was a pretty safe topic. It just seems like a no brainer to me now....there are many, many UPC churches that emphasize church ahead of family. I know from being in it for 19 years. As for feeling happier in the church I am in....I don't know what I feel. If you want to know what's really inside of me, what I rarely say.....I have been so traumatized by my experiences in the church that I am not involved in church at all except for attending on Sunday mornings. I had a nightmare the other night....that my husband said he wanted to get back into the UPC and pastor. It was truly a nightmare. This is not a joke. I woke up and told my husband about it and he said "That was a nightmare!!" I was full of fear in the dream.

So, this issue just seemed like a safe, little no-brainer discussion issue. If I can't discuss this tiny thing safely without being criticized by UPC people, you can imagine that I will probably never talk about the things that are really bothering me.

[Cindy]

Originally Posted by ILG

Thanks cneattx. I don't talk too much about the extent of things in my life. This that I wrote today I felt was a pretty safe topic. It just seems like a no brainer to me now....there are many, many UPC churches that emphasize church ahead of family. I know from being in it for 19 years. As for feeling happier in the church I am in....I don't know what I feel. If you want to know what's really inside of me, what I rarely say.....I have been so traumatized by my experiences in the church that I am not involved in church at all except for attending on Sunday mornings. I had a nightmare the other night....that my husband said he wanted to get back into the UPC and pastor. It was truly a nightmare. This is not a joke. I woke up and told my husband about it and he said "That was a nightmare!!" I was full of fear in the dream.

So, this issue just seemed like a safe, little no-brainer discussion issue. If I can't discuss this tiny thing safely without being criticized by UPC people, you can imagine that I will probably never talk about the things that are really bothering me.

I do hope you can find someone, or someplace where you can talk about the things that are bothering you. Like I told MP I did not mean to offend you, as I never experienced anything like that in the UPC churches I have attended. I will be praying for you. And praying for more understanding myself.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by cneasttx

I do hope you can find someone, or someplace where you can talk about the things that are bothering you. Like I told MP I did not mean to offend you, as I never experienced anything like that in the UPC churches I have attended. I will be praying for you. And praying for more understanding myself.

Thanks.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by ILG

If I can't discuss this tiny thing safely without being criticized by UPC people, you can imagine that I will probably never talk about the things that are really bothering me.

ILG,
You know this Forum is very open about expressing anything we want to express and I'm glad you have a place to do that.

I must point out that your opening thread title and sentence were already in the negative. That's not even good practice going into an argument with your spouse. LOL!

The first thought coming out of the gate seemed to be, pretty much, "Heads up! This is what is wrong with you." That might not go over too well if we are going to have continuing conversations about the UPCI. Just saying.....

I've already expressed to you my feelings - I stay if God says to stay. Therefore, I know that I learn and grow staying in His will. I could talk about a whole lot of things, but something in my heart feels like I'm telling God - "You don't really know what's best for me." I can't do that and that's just they way I handle it. I'm where ever He wants me to be. I have good stories and I have bad stories. His Word has spoken to me in all seasons and I am blessed. Just sharing........

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

ILG,
You know this Forum is very open about expressing anything we want to express and I'm glad you have a place to do that.

I must point out that your opening thread title and sentence were already in the negative. That's not even good practice going into an argument with your spouse. LOL!

The first thought coming out of the gate seemed to be, pretty much, "Heads up! This is what is wrong with you." That might not go over too well if we are going to have continuing conversations about the UPCI. Just saying.....

I've already expressed to you my feelings - I stay if God says to stay. Therefore, I know that I learn and grow staying in His will. I could talk about a whole lot of things, but something in my heart feels like I'm telling God - "You don't really know what's best for me." I can't do that and that's just they way I handle it. I'm where ever He wants me to be. I have good stories and I have bad stories. His Word has spoken to me in all seasons and I am blessed. Just sharing........

Yeah, I guess I understand that...and you have a point. I do wonder sometimes though if there is any approporiate way to point out an issue that I believe affected me and my life and husband and kids deeply, because of UPC teachings, so as to try and help someone else avoid the mistakes we made and have them look at it and say "Well, yeah, we could probably improve a bit in this area." Especially the pastors who are still teaching this. My intention is not to bash anyone, but to spare people the pain and mistakes I made. Maybe I should have entitled the post One of the Biggest Mistakes I Made....but then that would be to say that I listened to something I shouldn't have and that would probably not fare well with some either.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by ILG

Yeah, I guess I understand that...and you have a point. I do wonder sometimes though if there is any approporiate way to point out an issue that I believe affected me and my life and husband and kids deeply, because of UPC teachings, so as to try and help someone else avoid the mistakes we made and have them look at it and say "Well, yeah, we could probably improve a bit in this area." Especially the pastors who are still teaching this. My intention is not to bash anyone, but to spare people the pain and mistakes I made. Maybe I should have entitled the post One of the Biggest Mistakes I Made....but then that would be to say that I listened to something I shouldn't have and that would probably not fare well with some either.

ILG,
Gosh so much to say! We all have so much we feel and want to say!

We've all posted together and have fond affection for each other as friends, so that makes us want to be careful how we discuss issues - BUT we all have very strong opinions and want to express them!

I believe the bottom line is that we all feel we have to do what is best for our own self preservation - all the while - making sure that "preservation" lines up with the "will of God".

I have been hurt in the UPC and I have seen people hurt - some have left, others have stayed. I can't make a judgment call on anyone's decision. Just have to do what I feel my heart and His Spirit are telling me.

Having said all of that - sometimes your posts come across as not being able to get past the hurt of your experience. I'm just going to be as honest in my expression as you have. I believe you would want that.

You are saying you want to help others, by sharing your experiences, so they won't make the same mistakes, but I don't read where it does help. It seems to only keep a wound open. Now, that's just how I am reading it. Others may not.

When I read your posts I'm thinking of all the times I've been in your situation and God moved the men/women out of my life or just moved me. The times when He spoke to me and said, "No weapon formed against you shall prosper." I never had to walk away from those that hurt me. His truth and His Spirit fought for me.

So, for me, when people say the best thing to do is walk away - I've never had to do that and I don't think the Organization is broken - so I don't get the walking away as an answer in my life.

I'd like to get into some down and dirty stories, but the strength of - when you've done all, stand, with your loins girt about with truth - would totally be lost.

We can only spare people the pain when we share the victory through the storm. For instance, I was under a pastor that was committing adultery with several women in the church. The Lord opened His Word to me and showed me His power, His strength, His love, His mercy.......He hung the earth upon - nothing! He showed me that in Job during that time. I was a new convert.

Did I want to leave - you bet!!! But His Spirit said, "Stay and see it through." That man wasn't the representation of the UPCI. He only represented what carnal man is capable of. Don't we know that?!

What I'm trying to say is that if we have a bad experience - let's show the power of God and how he worked on our behalf during that experience. We stand as having no hope in his power if we only reflect the bad. God has to be in that somewhere. Right?

If I am reading past you, then this is a good place to share your heart and where, perhaps, you are being misread!

[ILG]

I started responding to a certain post and then figured that I would just respond generically.

This whole thread is wierd to me. I wrote about UPC pastors who preach too much church and not enough on family. Then, a number of people say it's all about me....but many here are posting concurring that they too, have had these same types of experiences with UPC preachers and doctrines. Yes, I have had hurt, but I didn't start this thread talking about my pain. I end up talking about it because people start saying "You have pain" and suddenly my pain becomes the problem rather than the real issue that I wrote about. It seems to me that people are saying "Well, yes, the pastors do sometimes bash people on the head with a baseball bat, but I just pray through and forget about it!" My solution is that we really don't need to subject ourselves to that baseball hit in the first place. Then, people say "ILG got hit in the head with a baseball bat just like me, but I submitted and she is saying that you don't have to!" Well, yeah, that is the difference. And some have never been hit with that baseball bat and I'm happy for them, not mad about it like some people seem to think!

Bottom line is, the guy with the baseball bat needs to stop hitting. If I nurse the crack on my skull, I think that's a pretty good thing.

And then, if I come on years later saying that I got hit with a baseball bat, nursed my wound, and left the place that cracked me and wouldn't quit, more power to me, I say.

Okay, I am angry now, I better just get off of here for a while.

[Kae]

Originally Posted by ILG

Thanks cneattx. I don't talk too much about the extent of things in my life. This that I wrote today I felt was a pretty safe topic. It just seems like a no brainer to me now....there are many, many UPC churches that emphasize church ahead of family. I know from being in it for 19 years. As for feeling happier in the church I am in....I don't know what I feel. If you want to know what's really inside of me, what I rarely say.....I have been so traumatized by my experiences in the church that I am not involved in church at all except for attending on Sunday mornings. I had a nightmare the other night....that my husband said he wanted to get back into the UPC and pastor. It was truly a nightmare. This is not a joke. I woke up and told my husband about it and he said "That was a nightmare!!" I was full of fear in the dream.

So, this issue just seemed like a safe, little no-brainer discussion issue. If I can't discuss this tiny thing safely without being criticized by UPC people, you can imagine that I will probably never talk about the things that are really bothering me.

The UPC church that I grew up in taught that the church came first, children second and husband third. I was also taught to never say no to the pastor. I am also very careful of what I say due to the criticism that abounds.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Kae

The UPC church that I grew up in taught that the church came first, children second and husband third. I was also taught to never say no to the pastor. I am also very careful of what I say due to the criticism that abounds.

That is bizarre Kae. Did you actually buy into that?