Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffrey
You use the word "judged" more than anyone I know.
"It" = "his faith" = "his believing the Lord" the precedent clause of Gen 15:6. |
correct his "faith' is judged. The reason I use judge all the time because that is what happens. Everything we do has judgment or a "reactive result" Breathing air has a judgment on the body. Our actions have judgment before God and law is always there. back to the subject...
1)
Gen 15:6 is not about sin
2)
Gen 15:6 is not directly about salvation
3)
Gen 15:6 IS ABOUT God doing justice to Abrahams action.
4)
Gen 15:6 is not about covenant.
5)
Gen 12 you state a covenant is there, then turn around and say it's in
Gen 15:6 you can't have it both ways.
6) What God wants to do and coming INTO actual covenant are two different things.
7)
Gen 15 clearly shows God coming INTO the land covenant though God discussed what he "wanted" to do. It was not covenant yet.
8) God discusses in
Gen 15:3-4 what he "wants" to do and explains to Abraham his "plans". It takes following to be faithful and to bring it to completion. As faith is defined by the context of what is said and the resulting action.
9)
Gen 12 Abraham is told to move and he does so. Once stopped because of his action he asks God "how" to possess... God makes covenant by asking him to do and by doing He makes covenant concerning the land which would go unto his seed. Even though it would go unto his seed ,the multiplying the seed and promise was another aspect not yet realized.
10) Abraham had not obtained a covenant toward his seed multiplying...
11) we see the consistent pattern of God asking and Abraham doing and the result is covenant again in
Gen 17....
Gen 17:1 When Abram was ninety-nine years old the LORD appeared to Abram and said to him, "I am God Almighty;
walk before me, and be blameless,
Gen 17:2 that I may make my covenant between me and you, and may multiply you greatly."
Notice it is STILL future of what God wanted to do. It is called a progressive covenantry. One leads to another. He speaks of the future covenant yet speaks of being under covenant. How is this covenant again brought about? By him doing just like before.
What is the covenant he is supposed to walk TO obtain "that I may make" in the future?
Gen 17:9 And God said unto Abraham, And as for thee, thou shalt keep my covenant, thou, and thy seed after thee throughout their generations.
Gen 17:10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee: every male among you shall be circumcised.
Is this the covenant in
Gen 22? No! It is the covenant to obtain "that I may make" a covenant. Because God says he wants to do something doesn't mean it's covenant. God judges and will be faithful if you are faithful to his Word. Just like today. We have covenant to receive the promises yet we have not OBTAINED YET the covenant/fulfillment of eternal life. When we are judged faithful, we obtain that covenant of promise.
Abraham OBTAINED by obedience that which by God's grace he offered.... "THAT I MAY MAKE" why would the seed come about and be blessed....
Gen 22:14 And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovah-jireh. As it is said to this day, In the mount of Jehovah it shall be provided.
Gen 22:15 And the angel of Jehovah called unto Abraham a second time out of heaven,
Gen 22:16 and said,
By myself have I sworn, saith Jehovah,
because thou hast done this thing, and hast
not withheld thy son, thine only son,
Gen 22:17 that in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heavens, and as the sand which is upon the seashore. And thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies.
Gen 22:18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed. Because thou hast obeyed my voice.
This is the covenant "that I may make" God tells Isaac WHY it came about. Was it mental assent of promise which one was justified or the WORKS that justified Abraham by faith response?
Gen 26:3 Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee. For unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these lands, and I will establish the oath which I sware unto Abraham thy father.
Gen 26:4 And I will multiply thy seed as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these lands. And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed.
Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
Gen 12 he did and was judged to bring about
Gen 15
Gen 15:8 And he said, O Lord Jehovah,
whereby shall I know that I shall inherit it?
Gen 15:9 He said to him, "
Bring me a heifer three years old, a female goat three years old, a ram three years old, a turtledove, and a young pigeon."
Gen 15:10 And he brought him all these, cut them in half, and laid each half over against the other. But he did not cut the birds in half.
TO OBTAIN AND INHERIT LAND PROMISE!
which brought about another promise and covenant by which God demanded something before covenant in
Gen 17 above which led to
Gen 22 which took him responding and was judged just the he obtained covenant.
Gen 18:18 seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?
Gen 18:19 For I have chosen him, that he may command his children and his household after him to keep the way of the LORD by doing righteousness and justice,
so that the LORD may bring to Abraham what he has promised him."
To bring upon and confirm the promise by covenant are two different things.
concerning Paul.... he is talking about a certain aspect how a action of faith is "judged/considered" thus one stands turned to God and his heart be acceptable unto God. Abraham was considered righteous not simply by circumcision but well before circumcision. Was circumcision a righteous response? Yes but it in itself was not righteousing but God's judgment of action is what delcares right or just. Not our works speaking "judgment" outside of God.
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