I'm thankful I repented of my sins, was baptized in Jesus Name and was filled with the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues...like the thousands who have had the same experience beginning at the day of Pentecost until now...
I'm thankful I repented of my sins, was baptized in Jesus Name and was filled with the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues...like the thousands who have had the same experience beginning at the day of Pentecost until now...
I'm thankful for that same experience!
__________________
Master of Science in Applied Disgruntled Religious Theorist Wrangling
PhD in Petulant Tantrum Quelling
Dean of the School of Hard Knocks
How can I believe in salvation by works if I claimed this?
If a person repented and agreed to be baptized, having the faith that works, and died before getting baptized, THEY ARE SAVED. If the person DID NOT DIE and DOES NOT GET BAPTIZED, they are not saved. They did not have the OBEDIENT HEART of FAITH THAT WORKS. It is the HEART INTENT that shows God if the person has FAITH THAT WORKS. And since God saw the heart fully ready to obey, that shows the "faith that works" was indeed present in such a life.
And let me give another scenario. I always leave these things up to God and leave Him to judge the issue when dealing with gray areas that the Word does not talk about, but my best educated guess would be that if someone never had anyone tell them about baptism, and truly learned of Jesus and the true concept of how the work of the cross saves, and genuinely repented, not getting baptized (totally due to lack of awareness of it), God knows if their heart WOULD GET BAPTIZED SHOULD THEY LEARN OF IT, they are saved if they have the heart to indeed get baptized had they learned of it.
__________________ ...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
Pel and n.o.w.,
...
And let me give another scenario. I always leave these things up to God and leave Him to judge the issue when dealing with gray areas that the Word does not talk about, but my best educated guess would be that if someone never had anyone tell them about baptism, and truly learned of Jesus and the true concept of how the work of the cross saves, and genuinely repented, not getting baptized (totally due to lack of awareness of it), God knows if their heart WOULD GET BAPTIZED SHOULD THEY LEARN OF IT, they are saved if they have the heart to indeed get baptized had they learned of it.[/indent]
I think (not sure) the Roman Catholics call that the "baptism of desire." In other words that person would get baptized if he knew about it.
I think (not sure) the Roman Catholics call that the "baptism of desire." In other words that person would get baptized if he knew about it.
Interesting. Never heard that one before.
After research I found this from a catholic site:
What does it mean to belong to the Church by desire’ or ‘longing’?
St. Thomas Aquinas states that" a man may, without Baptism of Water, receive the sacramental effect from Christ's Passion, in so far as he is conformed to Christ by suffering for Him. Hence, it is written (Apoc. 7:14): "These are they who are come out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes and have made them white in the blood of the Lamb." In like manner a man receives the effect of Baptism by the power of the Holy Ghost, not only without Baptism of Water, but also without Baptism of Blood: forasmuch as his heart is moved by the Holy Ghost to believe in and love God and to repent of his sins: wherefore this is also called Baptism of Repentance. Of this, it is written (Is. 4:4): "If the Lord shall wash away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and shall wash away the blood of Jerusalem out of the midst thereof, by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning." Thus, therefore, each of these other Baptisms is called Baptism, forasmuch as it takes the place of Baptism. Wherefore Augustine says (De Unico Baptismo Parvulorum iv): "The Blessed Cyprian argues with considerable reason from the thief to whom, though not baptized, it was said: 'Today shall you be with Me in Paradise' that suffering can take the place of Baptism. Having weighed this in my mind again and again, I perceive that not only can suffering for the name of Christ supply for what was lacking in Baptism, but even faith and conversion of heart, if perchance on account of the stress of the times the celebration of the mystery of Baptism is not practicable." [11] He also states "Secondly, the sacrament of Baptism may be wanting to anyone in reality but not in desire: for instance, when a man wishes to be baptized, but by some ill-chance he is forestalled by death before receiving Baptism. Moreover, such a man can obtain salvation without being actually baptized, on account of his desire for Baptism, which desire is the outcome of "faith that works by charity," whereby God, Whose power is not tied to visible sacraments, sanctifies man inwardly. Hence Ambrose says of Valentinian, who died while yet a catechumen: "I lost him whom I was to regenerate: but he did not lose the grace he prayed for." [12]
It seems they strongly lean towards personal suffering to take the place of baptism. Which is error.
Funny that this ties in with futurism. I heard this in many dispensationalistic circles, though. They teach that during the future tribulation since the church is gone due to the rapture souls are saved by shedding THEIR OWN BLOOD. Heinous, I think! THAT is salvation by work. But then again, some futurists believe seven years of law were never paid for by the cross, and hence the reason for a seven year tribulation where law of Moses is once again in effect. Progressive dispensationalism is getting away from that thought, though.
__________________ ...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
How can I believe in salvation by works if I claimed this?
If a person repented and agreed to be baptized, having the faith that works, and died before getting baptized, THEY ARE SAVED. If the person DID NOT DIE and DOES NOT GET BAPTIZED, they are not saved. They did not have the OBEDIENT HEART of FAITH THAT WORKS. It is the HEART INTENT that shows God if the person has FAITH THAT WORKS. And since God saw the heart fully ready to obey, that shows the "faith that works" was indeed present in such a life.
And let me give another scenario. I always leave these things up to God and leave Him to judge the issue when dealing with gray areas that the Word does not talk about, but my best educated guess would be that if someone never had anyone tell them about baptism, and truly learned of Jesus and the true concept of how the work of the cross saves, and genuinely repented, not getting baptized (totally due to lack of awareness of it), God knows if their heart WOULD GET BAPTIZED SHOULD THEY LEARN OF IT, they are saved if they have the heart to indeed get baptized had they learned of it.
Like I said Mike, I really haven't "hung a tag on you." Like DKB, you back up and take a run at the topic of salvation making certain to touch bases at the cross. I respect that.
There are others however, who just jump right in with a list of "you gotta do's" and who make granny's knickers a matter of salvation. They are the ones who at least appear to have forgotten about the cross. And when the cross and salvation by grace through faith is brought up they have the predictable knee jerk reactions.
Like I said Mike, I really haven't "hung a tag on you." Like DKB, you back up and take a run at the topic of salvation making certain to touch bases at the cross. I respect that.
There are others however, who just jump right in with a list of "you gotta do's" and who make granny's knickers a matter of salvation. They are the ones who at least appear to have forgotten about the cross. And when the cross and salvation by grace through faith is brought up they have the predictable knee jerk reactions.
I'm thankful I repented of my sins, was baptized in Jesus Name and was filled with the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues...like the thousands who have had the same experience beginning at the day of Pentecost until now...
One thousand amens!
__________________ ...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
I'm thankful I repented of my sins, was baptized in Jesus Name and was filled with the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues...like the thousands who have had the same experience beginning at the day of Pentecost until now...
Can you name one that had that experiance between the years 200 A.D. and 1900 A.D.?
Hybrid Mode
