The Cross of Christ Alone Can Save - Page 140

mfblume · #**1391** 05-05-2010, 10:18 AM

Catching up on some lost posts. lol.

The Legalist, what are your thoughts about this?

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Legalist

I think this is the problem many have... God's righteousness toward us is seen in several ways. The righteousness that saves in the sense of what brought about salvation or the offering of it is not of "anything" we can do or did.

Amen. Only what God did can make anyone righteous. People do not realize that contriving enough good deeds to award oneself righteousness is the entire error that Paul had in mind when speaking against salvation by works. Somehow that contrivance issue got lost with many.

I am referring to what Paul said was the gift of righteousness. God deemed Abraham righteous when Abraham believed God.

Paul stated that this sort of righteousness did not come by law. People thought Law's deeds of obedience would make one righteous without any such work of the cross that Paul preached is the sole cause of righteousness. The only WORK anyone can do to be righteous is the work GOD DID in in the work of the cross. Today many do not even know that the work of the cross speaks of the vicarious nature of Christ's death, with His death, burial, resurrection, ascension and even seating at the right hand throne, and so they wonder what you mean by work of the cross. But, the point is only God can do a work that is responsible for the righteousness given to us as a gift.

Instead of righteousness coming by deeds of law, which Jews tried to attain by law keeping, Paul stated righteousness is available aside from any concept of deeds of the Law.

Romans 3:21-22 KJV But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; (22) Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Two roads led to righteousness. Had humanity not had sin in us all, we could attain righteousness by the law. We would not need the cross. However, the law could not accomplish that for us due to the sins of the flesh. We clashed with law.

Romans 8:3-4 KJV For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: (4) That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Law was intended to make us righteous.

1 Timothy 1:5 KJV Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:

Galatians 3:12 KJV And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

One had to DO all the law's requirements in order to be righteous.

The goal of law to produce charity from a pure heart, a good conscience and true faith could not be accomplished by law keeping, but it was granted by grace.

1 Timothy 1:14 KJV And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

This is where Romans 8:3-4 comes in and says what the law could not accomplish in us, God did through the cross. The righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us. But it is not by works of the law or walking after the flesh to make self righteous by deeds. It is accomplished by walking after the Spirit, or believing in the power of God to instill it into us because of the work God did with the cross.

We believe as Abraham believed, and God makes us righteous. It's a gift.

Romans 5:17 KJV For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

The cross is the only work directly related to righteousness and justification. But any faith that is real is faith that obeys covenantal requirements stipulated by God. James informs us that true faith that is alive and real is faith that works. And when that faith is present, God sees it and justifies the person as well as makes them righteous. And if it is not such a faith, there never follows obedience to the requirements of the covenant.

How does that fit in with your thoughts, Legalist?

I really enjoyed a study on righteousness several years ago that answered all my questions about legalism, etc. The above is part of that study.

Righteousness is right standing with God. That is our ticket to heaven. Sin put us out of right standing, or made us unrighteous, and grace gives us righteousness, right standing, without our works. So I think I have been using "righteousness" in a context differently here than you have, whereas you may have been emphasizing how God acts righteously (just) as opposed to us being given righteousness, or person aright standing with God.

mfblume · #**1392** 05-06-2010, 10:55 AM

bump

TheLegalist · #**1393** 05-11-2010, 09:23 AM

I will give a response soon.

notofworks · #**1394** 11-21-2010, 09:09 PM

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Originally Posted by TheLegalist

I will give a response soon.

Well, I figured six months was enough waiting. You ever gonna speak up?

TheLegalist · #**1395** 12-20-2010, 07:43 AM

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Originally Posted by notofworks

Well, I figured six months was enough waiting. You ever gonna speak up?

Well considering you did not follow the converation as it was started in another thread.

http://apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=30132

Also I have not been on the board in a long time as I have devoted my energy to several other things that needed my attention.

notofworks · #**1396** 12-20-2010, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheLegalist

Well considering you did not follow the converation as it was started in another thread.

http://apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=30132

Also I have not been on the board in a long time as I have devoted my energy to several other things that needed my attention.

Don't know anything about another thread. I just know you said you'd respond, and didn't.

Apprehended · #**1397** 12-28-2010, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notofworks

"Notice what large letters I use as I write these closing words in my own handwriting. Those who are trying to force you to be circumcised are doing it for just one reason. They don't want to be persecuted for teaching that the cross of Christ alone can save."

Galatians 6:11-12 NLT

These things really hit me today as I read this today:
1) The cross of Christ alone can save.
2) If we add one thing at all to the saving power of the cross, we can add anything. When does it stop?
3) Among all the debates as to how many steps there are to salvation, we seem to miss the fact that the only step that matters is the step taken by Christ on the cross.
4) There clearly is a cost to pay if one teaches that the cross of Christ alone can save.

Regards to no. 4 above; what price are you paying? Are you being persecuted?

Incidentally,

I have a few neighbors. One of them is named Guido. His brother's name is Luigi. Their parents are Pasquale and Rosa. The cross has not done anything for them. They are all as mean as snakes, especially Rosa. She will shoot and ask questions later. Ask Pasquale. He's had to duck lead more than once. Guido and Pasquale just stay away as much as possible. Nice folks except that a Peace Bond alone seems to be the only thing that helped any of them, much less a cross alone. It hasn't helped them at all.

What happened to the cross alone theory?

Apprehended · #**1398** 12-29-2010, 10:55 AM

Maybe I ought to tell you about two or their cousins, Vinnie and Salvatore...speaking of the cross alone.

Apprehended · #**1399** 12-29-2010, 04:31 PM

I guess no one wants to respond as to why the "cross alone" didn't help Guido, his brother Luigi, their parents Pasquale and Rosa.

Anyone would like to render an opinion? It would help me a lot.

notofworks · #**1400** 12-29-2010, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apprehended

I guess no one wants to respond as to why the "cross alone" didn't help Guido, his brother Luigi, their parents Pasquale and Rosa.

Anyone would like to render an opinion? It would help me a lot.

Are you saying that the cross alone doesn't save? So far I can't really make heads or tails out of much of anything you're saying.