Education Reformers Needed

[notofworks]

There are a number of people that know the bible inside and out and they know it without any formal education. These fellows are often used as examples of why Higher Education in theology isn't needed.

But really, I think they usually ARE examples of why we DO need it. There are even a lot of them here on the forum, that can run circles around most when it comes to bible knowledge and they have no seminary training. The problem is, they misuse it, misapply it, misinterpret it, mis-everything it. I could name several.

Harold Camping is proof of this. There isn't anyone on earth that knows the bible better then he, but the man is a complete theological idiot. He's dangerous. But he knows the bible.

There has to be more than just knowing the bible.

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by notofworks

There are a number of people that know the bible inside and out and they know it without any formal education. These fellows are often used as examples of why Higher Education in theology isn't needed.

But really, I think they usually ARE examples of why we DO need it. There are even a lot of them here on the forum, that can run circles around most when it comes to bible knowledge and they have no seminary training. The problem is, they misuse it, misapply it, misinterpret it, mis-everything it. I could name several.

Harold Camping is proof of this. There isn't anyone on earth that knows the bible better then he, but the man is a complete theological idiot. He's dangerous. But he knows the bible.

There has to be more than just knowing the bible.

I am also thinking of another self-educated poster who has a hard lined stance against gold, silver, and costly apparel in the jewelry thread here. He is the perfect example of someone who taught "THIS is what we believe!" and then reads every single verse of scripture through that filter rather than the other way around.

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

I don't have a formal education religious education, I believe God will make a way if someone is really called.

That said, I WOULD love to be able to attend a seminary or Bible college.

I wanted to attend a UPC Bible school, but was never able to, due to having a family very young. (Now I'm thankful for not going to a UPC Bible school, since they are unaccredited, and nearly everyone who did seems to regret going, and most don't even believe "the doctrine").

I would be interested in another venue, and where I live the most reputable school is Southwestern Theological Seminary, which is a Baptist school. But I cannot go, first off, because I am priced out of it , and secondly, because though I could be agreeable enough on most of the requirements to get in, affirming belief in the trinity is a requirement I cannot affirm.

Theres not really any other options as I really don't like the idea of online school, and I still have the responsibility to make a living for my family and help in the church, so full time school isn't an option.

Nevertheless, I think one can go pretty far in self education if they will commit themselves to reading the word, prayer, commentaries, word studies, etc.

Sometimes they are better off for it, because they don't have the indoctrination factor.

I think there's definitely value to self-learning. And one can even be a functional minister that way (considering they are accountable to others). But as a generation, corporately, it's critical that men and women invest time to higher education in these matters as well.

Jason, I can relate to your desire vs. reality struggle. I'm surprised that any college requires you to affirm any particular doctrine. That hasn't been my experience. Most Christian universities (not operated by a local church) treat learning like most academics -- a place to reflect, ask questions, turn ideas upside down and come to conclusions. Perhaps affirming particular doctrines would be required for those that wish to be licensed or ordained with an organization, but that shouldn't be the fact for a university, and has not been the case for the universities I've attended (which were mostly AoG schools, and a midwest Baptist school).

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by notofworks

This is SO true. Virtually every tidbit of revelatory and applicable bible research, including every commentary and every version of the bible in print, has been handed to us by those idiot trinitarians. These boys learn all their stuff and then tell them they're going to hell. It's hilarious, really.

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

I think there's definitely value to self-learning. And one can even be a functional minister that way (considering they are accountable to others). But as a generation, corporately, it's critical that men and women invest time to higher education in these matters as well.

Jason, I can relate to your desire vs. reality struggle. I'm surprised that any college requires you to affirm any particular doctrine. That hasn't been my experience. Most Christian universities (not operated by a local church) treat learning like most academics -- a place to reflect, ask questions, turn ideas upside down and come to conclusions. Perhaps affirming particular doctrines would be required for those that wish to be licensed or ordained with an organization, but that shouldn't be the fact for a university, and has not been the case for the universities I've attended (which were mostly AoG schools, and a midwest Baptist school).

Yeah, i may check into it more in the future. I looked online at the prices and then the basic requirements. It may be possible to get in on a purely academic basis, but then again, I can't do it full time.

Where I live Dallas Theological is just slightly further that Southwestern (Fort Worth), and it is something I would like to do if I ever had the chance. Both universities are baptist, I don't know if there are any other such universities close by.

I do agree with your premise that in general there needs to be education in place. Im not anti-education, I just think God can help us to be suffiecient without it (on a personal level), if we are truly committed to Him.

From my POV I can learn basically everything I can learn in a seminary on my own, but the downside is it will take many more years to do so.

It would also be beneficial to be in a classroom setting wo debate and discuss and question.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

I would not want to pay thousands of dollars to relocate, thousands more to be taught false doctrine just so I could be taught by someone suave and sophisticated.

Just for arguements sake of course.

That is again beside the point...quality of education.

Why can't I go to a trinitarian university whose quality of education is better than any OP college and learn the fundamentals of theology, learn hermeneutics, greek, and other things?

Just because their theology is wrong does not make them fundamentally unsound. I learned algebra from a Mormon and his principles of teaching algebra was sound and I did not come out a Mormon.

And really, as I said, that is all beside the point. The issue is quality of education. Oneness needs to increase that in their ranks and the only way that is gonna happen is if they get a good education first. Many of our current teachers got their masters or PHds at secular and Trinitarian universities

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Whats wrong with the Elders of the Church teaching new converts? Why should they have to pay to get a "Christian Education"? What is the role of the Pastors and Teachers? What is the SCRIPTURAL answer to helping the new convert to grow?

It is most certainly NOT Bible to send them off to a school somewhere. The Church is a place to learn. Matter of fact it is THE place to learn. If a Pastor is not able to do this he is not a New Testament Pastor.

Originally Posted by mfblume

Amen! Sadly, our types of circles simply have never placed an emphasis on Bible Teaching.

That Pastor has to first be taught himself! Many OP pastors are uneducated formerly. Many more are unwilling to be educated formerly or informally by doing self study

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

MTD, you're missing the point.

The whole idea of this thread supports equipping teachers. Somehow you have these competitive division that teachers somehow learn things about ancient languages, culture, the life and times of Jesus, canonology, exegesis, pastoral counseling, church history --- all by going to the library (and reading from some false doctrine crony you somehow have a hard time with).

Those dummies at Dallas Theological Seminary have offered a lifetime of theological scholarship that has been taken advantage of by every Oneness Apostolic Pentecostal Born-Again Believer in Jesus Name. So it's quite hypocritical to take advantage of the labor and scholarship of others and then say you don't support formal scholarship.

Elders should be apt to teach. The idea of formal education does not take away from that role, it reinforces it.

Don't forget every time one of those OPs quotes Strongs or some other work they are often quoting a Trinitarian who went to a place of higher learning

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

And if we go down that road again of "well, the disciples didn't go to Bible School," just pause a second and really think about your reply.

They studied at the feet of Jesus. Paul studied at the feet of Gamaliel.

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Don't forget every time one of those OPs quotes Strongs or some other work they are often quoting a Trinitarian who went to a place of higher learning

They also have no problems quoting Ken Ham and others of the young Earth crowd when it suits them, even though they are all trinnies. Then again Ken Ham has no issues when quoting real scientists on the very rare occasion they agree with them -the rest of the time they are just evil secular humanists.