Hate Of Reformed Theology

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

There are occasions in the OT where justice demanded, He had decided to bring destruction, and still He changed His mind.

God ordained cities of refuge.

God chose to spare.

God chose to send His Son.

God could have chose a different way.

God created us with the power to choose as well.


His Sovereignty does not demand that eternal damnation be a consequence of His Nature.

Our damnation is a consequence of our rebellion.

We're just repeating the same thing.

What you concluded with, I've already said. But our rebellion being damned is a byproduct of His character (read: holiness).

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by Cindy

What is reformed theology?

It can mean many things. Basically, a lot of what we have been discussing is one part of what many refer to as "reformed" theology.

Whether some consider it a "waste of time" or not, the topics that get fleshed out inside these categories are pretty important.

Most associate Reformed theology with John Calvin. The most common, and controversial, of Calvinism is predestination -- and what that means for us in soteriological terms.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Cindy

What is reformed theology?

Essentially, "Reformed" from the years of traditions and accumulated doctrines and ideas that the Catholic Church was said to have piled upon the original and pristine faith of the apostolic era.

Men like Martin Luther and John Calvin were key figures in the Reformation Era, the era when The Faith was "Reformed." Institutional Lutheranism maintained many of the trappings of the Catholic priesthood, so many people felt that even more Reform was needed.

Today, the term is usually applied to the followers of the more Calvinistic strain of thinking. This theology places a heavy emphasis upon the role of God as Sovereign in matters concerning our salvation. In fact, we are said to be so helpless to save ourselves that nothing we do or could ever do would possibly please God.

Thus, we are completely dependent upon His power to save us, and once saved, it is His power that will keep us in a state of grace and salvation from which we obviously cannot fall.

Basically, Presbyterians and the various Evangelical Free Churches call themselves "Reformed." There are of course many others. Baptists are a sort of "offshoot" though they will fight you for saying such. Some Baptists in fact espouse Calvinism more than the Calvinists. "Free Will" Baptists are those that chose to breakaway from Reformed Theology altogether.

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by Socialite

We're just repeating the same thing.

What you concluded with, I've already said. But our rebellion being damned is a byproduct of His character (read: holiness).

I disagree.

If you are saying that a person's eternal damnation is a byproduct of His Character, then in essence you are saying that the Sovereign God can't control His desire to see justice carried out on the wicked.

Through the scriptures I have support to believe that the eternal damnation of the wicked does not have to happen because of God's Sense of justice. God can and has shown Himself to hold off on His Own Sense of judgment, in the OT through His Sovereignty and in the NT through His Son.

The eternal damnation of the wicked will not happen because God does not have a choice.

Still, God does not send anyone to hell.


He gives us the power to choose.

[pelathais]

For those wanting a score card (the kids are gone - I can think again, so to speak) remember that the flower called Tulip comes from Holland and most Hollanders are of the Reformed Faith (or were before they legalized hash).

Anyhoo, the "Five Points of Calvinism" correspond to the 5 letters in the word Tulip.

Total Depravity

Unconditional Election

Limited Atonement

Irresistible Grace

Perseverance of the Saints

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

I disagree.

If you are saying that a person's eternal damnation is a byproduct of His Character, then in essence you are saying that the Sovereign God can't control His desire to see justice carried out on the wicked.

Through the scriptures I have support to believe that the eternal damnation of the wicked does not have to happen because of God's Sense of justice. God can and has shown Himself to hold off on His Own Sense of judgment, in the OT through His Sovereignty and in the NT through His Son.

The eternal damnation of the wicked will not happen because God does not have a choice.

Still, God does not send anyone to hell.


He gives us the power to choose.

I'm really trying to follow your questions here, but it just sounds like repitition and haggling on semantics so small that they are hardly noticeable.

God is Holy. Rebellion and disobedience demand justice (a good Character of God). We rebel, and are thus damned. We aren't just damned because we are rebellious or disobedient. But because God's holiness and justice demand such.

The NT doesn't reveal God holding back justice. It reveals a God who came himself to receive the due justice that we deserved.

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by pelathais

For those wanting a score card (the kids are gone - I can think again, so to speak) remember that the flower called Tulip comes from Holland and most Hollanders are of the Reformed Faith (or were before they legalized hash).

Anyhoo, the "Five Points of Calvinism" correspond to the 5 letters in the word Tulip.

Total Depravity

Unconditional Election

Limited Atonement

Irresistible Grace

Perseverance of the Saints

I've even heard of 7-pointers. Can't recall what the additional two are though.

[Cindy]

Limited Atonement?

[pelathais]

Total Depravity -

Man is totally lost to God. Man has no goodness within himself that is worthy of merit let alone redemption. We are all lost and without hope. Romans 3:9-19

Unconditional Election -

Before the world began, God chose some to be saved. That they are to be saved is due to God's choice alone. See Acts 13:48 "... as many as were appointed to eternal life believed."

Limited Atonement -

The blood of Jesus Christ is efficacious only for the elect. John 10:13-14 - Jesus lays down His life - "for the sheep" and not for just anybody. Many Reformed people drop this point and are known as "Four Point Calvinists."

Irresistible Grace -

Since we are powerless to save ourselves, we are also powerless to ........ ourselves as well (assuming "we" are the Elect). John 6:37: "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out."


Perseverance of the Saints -

Once saved, always saved. But this includes the idea of persevering over sin and being a conqueror. John 5:24 & etc.

[Socialite]

And in this systematic way presented (traditional Calvinism), I don't subscribe.

Though I find value... if that makes sense.