I challenge Cooper! Find an Apostolic Church and submit....

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by whollyHis

KEY WORDS HERE- 'commited' and 'faithful'. Commited to WHOM and faithful to WHAT? Pastor Coon, your words struck a proverbial 'chord' with me, and I have a lot I could say about what you wrote here...but, I won't. I will just mull the words over, and allow God to speak through what you wrote to COOP. I can relate to COOP, in a number of ways...thank God for HOPE.

Wholly,

When I read Bro Coonskinner's words "committed" and "faithful", I took them to mean to Christ and his body, the church.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

Too late for what? Perhaps they feel you did the right thing and don't view you as utterly lost. Possible.

I suppose there could be two reasons why people don't call. They could think that it's a waste of their time. Or they could think that leaving was the right thing and they can't call us and let us know that because it might ruin their reputation.

[originalsecretplace]

Originally Posted by Brother Strange

This is exactly right.

Has anyone sought to find the root of the hurt-turned-bitterness? Of course bitterness will lash out? Does anyone understand what caused it all? Perhaps a thread might be started in an attempt to honestly flush out the bottom most of the cause. Coop may or maynot be willing to cooperate. That is another consideration.

Just mere submitting is not the answer. Blind submission is not the answer unless he loves having his mind raped and family abused by some tyrant...which so often happens. Not saying this is the case in Coop's instance.

The bible commands us...(that's you and me)...to KNOW THEM that labor among us. Unless husband/father assumes the God given role in the primary responsibility of being the priest and leader of his own home, that is, the priest in the first church God ever formed, he is a fool to ignorantly subject himself and family (the first church) to someone that could just as well send them all to hell from abuse. Seen it happen too many times.

There is no authority apart from divine love. Authority is abrogated in the absence of divine love coupled together with the calling to office. A pastor that does not love the sheep and who are not only willing but ready to give himself for them has NO authority from office alone.

So, since there is so much concern for COOPER, why not try pouring in the oil of understanding and the wine of inspiration rather than passing him on by with ideas and suggestions without attempting to lift him upon their own donkey.

The Priest could have said, "Well, you poor victim, get up out of the ditch and quit whining about have been beaten and robbed, you should have listened to others and not have made this journey anway."

The Levi might have said, "Well, just look at you down in that awful ditch. Aren't you ashamed of yourself? If you would have submitted to your former pastor and not went off looking for another church to attend, you would not have met up with the highwaymen and got beaten up and robbed. Why don't you get up from there and crawl back to your former pastor and submit?" Tsk, tsk, tsk.

Wonder what the Good Samaritan might have said? "Oh brother, I don't even count myself worthy to be your servant, being only a Samaritan, but I see that you have been grievously treated and left in a terrible condition. Without reward or recognition for myself, I will examine your wounds and treat them. I will pour in the oil to soothe and speed the healing of the wound, I will pour in the wine to ease the pain. Then, after I bind up the wounds, I will take you upon my own beast of burden to a place where you can convalesce with all bills paid until then." Curiously, the name of the Good Samaritan was never known. Such men care not for the glory and fame from good works.

I of course disagree with a lot of people here. With that being said, it naturally follows that there are those that will disagree with me. Big deal. That does not matter at all. But, what does matter is at least these few words might be considered.

Of couse, I do agree with prayer and what I feel is OPs' true heart felt concern for Bro. Cooper. The value of prayer cannot be estimated.

All I can say about this post is WOW!!!

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

Originally Posted by originalsecretplace

All I can say about this post is WOW!!!

It was a great post

[COOPER]

Originally Posted by Brother Strange

This is exactly right.

Has anyone sought to find the root of the hurt-turned-bitterness? Of course bitterness will lash out? Does anyone understand what caused it all? Perhaps a thread might be started in an attempt to honestly flush out the bottom most of the cause. Coop may or maynot be willing to cooperate. That is another consideration.

Just mere submitting is not the answer. Blind submission is not the answer unless he loves having his mind raped and family abused by some tyrant...which so often happens. Not saying this is the case in Coop's instance.

The bible commands us...(that's you and me)...to KNOW THEM that labor among us. Unless husband/father assumes the God given role in the primary responsibility of being the priest and leader of his own home, that is, the priest in the first church God ever formed, he is a fool to ignorantly subject himself and family (the first church) to someone that could just as well send them all to hell from abuse. Seen it happen too many times.

There is no authority apart from divine love. Authority is abrogated in the absence of divine love coupled together with the calling to office. A pastor that does not love the sheep and who are not only willing but ready to give himself for them has NO authority from office alone.

So, since there is so much concern for COOPER, why not try pouring in the oil of understanding and the wine of inspiration rather than passing him on by with ideas and suggestions without attempting to lift him upon their own donkey.

The Priest could have said, "Well, you poor victim, get up out of the ditch and quit whining about have been beaten and robbed, you should have listened to others and not have made this journey anway."

The Levi might have said, "Well, just look at you down in that awful ditch. Aren't you ashamed of yourself? If you would have submitted to your former pastor and not went off looking for another church to attend, you would not have met up with the highwaymen and got beaten up and robbed. Why don't you get up from there and crawl back to your former pastor and submit?" Tsk, tsk, tsk.

Wonder what the Good Samaritan might have said? "Oh brother, I don't even count myself worthy to be your servant, being only a Samaritan, but I see that you have been grievously treated and left in a terrible condition. Without reward or recognition for myself, I will examine your wounds and treat them. I will pour in the oil to soothe and speed the healing of the wound, I will pour in the wine to ease the pain. Then, after I bind up the wounds, I will take you upon my own beast of burden to a place where you can convalesce with all bills paid until then." Curiously, the name of the Good Samaritan was never known. Such men care not for the glory and fame from good works.

I of course disagree with a lot of people here. With that being said, it naturally follows that there are those that will disagree with me. Big deal. That does not matter at all. But, what does matter is at least these few words might be considered.

Of couse, I do agree with prayer and what I feel is OPs' true heart felt concern for Bro. Cooper. The value of prayer cannot be estimated.

Originally Posted by originalsecretplace

All I can say about this post is WOW!!!

Originally Posted by BoredOutOfMyMind

It was a great post

[Michlow]

The truth is that those who have not experienced it, do not understand the depths of damage that can be done in the mind.

Though I long ago let of any bitterness or anger that I held and freely forgave those who injured me, even I did not completely understand the effect those past experiences had on my spiritual life.

Firstly, and most importantly, I was taught a distorted view of God. Secondly I was shown a distorted view of authority. This distortion continued to encompass the church/body. These were all tied together with a manipulation and distortion of the Word.

So what was I left with? A fear of the ministry, a lack of trust in other believers, a dislike, fear, mistrust and feelings of confusion towards God and His word.

How do you just "get over" something like that? What tools does one use? All the sources one would normally turn to, have in the past been sources of abuse.

Perhaps it is different when one has been taught and nuturted in a healthy spiritual environment and then has a "bad experience", but when one is "born" into an abusive church it is not that easy to overcome. Then you are equipped with a defective filter. Even when you hear "truth" it is filtered through the distorted and twisted foundation that was first built.

I have been out of the bad environment for over 3 years and it has only been in the past month that I have begun to make progress. Because I have only now gotten a clear picture of Jesus. My view of Him was so distorted that there was no peace or joy in my walk, for I was serving a God that I despised, feared and had so much anger towards. I found Him capricious, arbitrarily cruel, demanding, domineering and a spiritual blackmailer.

(Anyone interested in reading about how that change, it is posted here: http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...6&postcount=23 )

Now that I have rebuilt my foundation, I can begin to deal with the other things.

But to be honest, it's very much a two steps forward, one step back process. Especially when it comes to church, Pastors and the Bible. They were the things that were used to distort my image of God.

Originally Posted by Brother Strange

This is exactly right.

Has anyone sought to find the root of the hurt-turned-bitterness? Of course bitterness will lash out? Does anyone understand what caused it all? Perhaps a thread might be started in an attempt to honestly flush out the bottom most of the cause. Coop may or maynot be willing to cooperate. That is another consideration.

Just mere submitting is not the answer. Blind submission is not the answer unless he loves having his mind raped and family abused by some tyrant...which so often happens. Not saying this is the case in Coop's instance.

The bible commands us...(that's you and me)...to KNOW THEM that labor among us. Unless husband/father assumes the God given role in the primary responsibility of being the priest and leader of his own home, that is, the priest in the first church God ever formed, he is a fool to ignorantly subject himself and family (the first church) to someone that could just as well send them all to hell from abuse. Seen it happen too many times.

There is no authority apart from divine love. Authority is abrogated in the absence of divine love coupled together with the calling to office. A pastor that does not love the sheep and who are not only willing but ready to give himself for them has NO authority from office alone.

So, since there is so much concern for COOPER, why not try pouring in the oil of understanding and the wine of inspiration rather than passing him on by with ideas and suggestions without attempting to lift him upon their own donkey.

The Priest could have said, "Well, you poor victim, get up out of the ditch and quit whining about have been beaten and robbed, you should have listened to others and not have made this journey anway."

The Levi might have said, "Well, just look at you down in that awful ditch. Aren't you ashamed of yourself? If you would have submitted to your former pastor and not went off looking for another church to attend, you would not have met up with the highwaymen and got beaten up and robbed. Why don't you get up from there and crawl back to your former pastor and submit?" Tsk, tsk, tsk.

Wonder what the Good Samaritan might have said? "Oh brother, I don't even count myself worthy to be your servant, being only a Samaritan, but I see that you have been grievously treated and left in a terrible condition. Without reward or recognition for myself, I will examine your wounds and treat them. I will pour in the oil to soothe and speed the healing of the wound, I will pour in the wine to ease the pain. Then, after I bind up the wounds, I will take you upon my own beast of burden to a place where you can convalesce with all bills paid until then." Curiously, the name of the Good Samaritan was never known. Such men care not for the glory and fame from good works.

I of course disagree with a lot of people here. With that being said, it naturally follows that there are those that will disagree with me. Big deal. That does not matter at all. But, what does matter is at least these few words might be considered.

Of couse, I do agree with prayer and what I feel is OPs' true heart felt concern for Bro. Cooper. The value of prayer cannot be estimated.

Excellent post.

[COOPER]

For those concerned about the hurts I have......I can honestly say I did not leave the UPCI because of a hurt.

I move to Amarillo while my old UPC church was going through a change of how standards were taught and viewed.

I moved to Amarillo with my Pastors blessing as new thinking UPC man concerning Holiness doctrines.

My old Church was very Black gospel and contemporary in music.

We were almost 1/2 white 1/2 black mixed with Spanish/Latino.

When I moved to Amarillo and visited Elms and Johnson's church it was very backward from want I knew as UPC for the last Seventeen years.

Also with the new way I viewed standards; I knew..... I could not and would not be involved in UPC anymore.

I just did not agree anymore and I knew it was Gods will not to live the UPC anymore and that he has something better.

After time I began to look back on my UPC life and realized I was put through Allot of UN-necessary doctrines.

It greived my soul to know that some of the doctrines I fought to hold to; were not truth.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by COOPER

For those concerned about the hurts I have......I can honestly say I did not leave the UPCI because of a hurt.

.

I didn't leave the UPC because of hurt either. But some here say "Yes, you did". What can you say after that?

[Michlow]

Originally Posted by ILG

I didn't leave the UPC because of hurt either. But some here say "Yes, you did". What can you say after that?

You keep denying it to the point that they accuse you of "being in denial" or "obviously deceived"