THIS is True Love!!!

[OldPathsII]

Originally Posted by The Mrs

Is there a full moon tonight???

Oh yes. Oh ha ha ha ha. Let's all make fun of the "Ultra-Con" guy. He must be under the influence of a full moon to believe those stupid things he does. Yeah, those goofy UPCers and those that believe like they do, must be idiots that only do what they do because of the full moon.

Yeah, let's mock them, laugh at them, and make fun of them. It'll make us feel better as we cut our hair and put on our makeup.

[Charnock]

Originally Posted by pelathais

Since you mention me by name, I'll chime in... I actually wondered if you had me on "Ignore" since you refused to respond to anything I said or asked you. That's really the purpose of this forum - discussion. When the first predecessor of this forum first came out - (FCF) it was the very first place where a wide range of Apostolics could come together and truly ask questions.

The climate of fear and silence within our movement is something that has been commented upon by just about everyone who has looked in on "Apostolic" churches. Most come away calling it a "climate of fear." To be able to finally speak up and freely ask questions was exhilarating.

You complain that you couldn't "speak freely" yet that does not appear to be the reason why you've been scolded. You came right out and called Sister Haney a "Jezebel." That wouldn't have been tolerated even back when AFF was owned and controlled by one of your "ultra-cons." You've also "judged" people who didn't agree with you and "sent them to hell." That broke a rule that was also written by an "ultra-con."

Concerning the 1992 General Conference - I was there. I was in the business meetings and the public worship services. I heard Jesse Williams rebuke those who brought the Westberg Resolution for "telling smutty jokes." He did so in front of the entire Conference. I heard Jame Kilgore mislead the Conference by saying "99% of the General Board supported the Resolution." Brother Kilgore has said many times - publicly - that he wished he had never spoken up. He regretted that the Resolution had been so divisive and he "grieved" over his own role in its passage.

That's not "supposedly" - that's a fact. Ask anyone who was there or even ask those I have named. These are the things that they said. No judgment from me - no "sending people to hell" - just the facts.

Pel, no disrespect intended, but if Brother Kilgore is that "grieved" why has he never worked to overturn the AS?

Also, the law of the harvest is ironic, at times. Odd that the AS may serve to be the very thing that pushes Elder Kilgore's own son, and church, out of the organization.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by OldPathsII

Do they SAY they believe in repentance? Oh, of course they do! But it's fruit that identifies a tree! Jesus said there will be people who did many things in His name but he will never have known them! Notofworks brags about playing worldly music in church, defends the gay community, brags about how much he lets go, so it doesn't really matter what he says about repentance. People can claim whatever they want, doesn't make it true.

Can you point out anyone that has said they don't believe a person needs to repent?

BTW can you quote NOW actually saying gays don't need to repent? I've never seen him do that

[The Mrs]

Originally Posted by OldPathsII

Oh yes. Oh ha ha ha ha. Let's all make fun of the "Ultra-Con" guy. He must be under the influence of a full moon to believe those stupid things he does. Yeah, those goofy UPCers and those that believe like they do, must be idiots that only do what they do because of the full moon.

Yeah, let's mock them, laugh at them, and make fun of them. It'll make us feel better as we cut our hair and put on our makeup.

Actually...I was directing that at myself.

But, that's beside the point...it's all about YOU!

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Charnock

Pel, no disrespect intended, but if Brother Kilgore is that "grieved" why has he never worked to overturn the AS?

Also, the law of the harvest is ironic, at times. Odd that the AS may serve to be the very thing that pushes Elder Kilgore's own son, and church, out of the organization.

It sounds like his grief was saying 99% of the board approved the AS

[Charnock]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

It sounds like his grief was saying 99% of the board approved the AS

Maybe. There should be a lot of grief over the whole shebang.

[OldPathsII]

Originally Posted by The Mrs

Actually...I was directing that at myself.

Sure.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by OldPathsII

An absolute falsehood!!! Quote where I said that or apologize!!

I said (the bolded part below) and then copied a post from another thread that you had start but had run away from when the questions got too hard for you:

Originally Posted by pelathais

Rather than starting a new thread... why don't you respond to those who took the time to respond to your last thread?


Quote:
Originally Posted by pelathais
Is Opie Deuce going to respond to the many answers that he has received? What's the point in starting a thread and putting up a questionnaire if you just ignore all of the responses?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pelathais
I personally am not aware of any group that practices a Christian baptism that does not "baptize in Jesus' name." Listen to what's being said (or read from some dusty old liturgy). They all baptize in Jesus' name - at least every one I've ever encountered.



No. While the phrase "evidence" is never associated with the baptism of the Holy Spirit in the NT, we do read that the Christian life is at least expected to produce many sorts of "evidence" that the individual has been born of God. This is often referred to as the "Fruit of the Spirit" (and there are 9 listed in Galatians 5:22-23). The teachings of the Apostles is replete with many other examples. Nowhere do we find "speaking in tongues" identified as "evidence of the baptism of the Holy Spirit" as you have claimed.



I believe the corrections I have made to your misunderstandings of the Word are necessary to be considered a part of the Body of Christ. The only thing that I can find that would fit the phrase, "absolutely necessary in order to be saved and ready for heaven?" would be that someone MUST be saved by the Savior.

That's your only hope and assurance. Jesus saves. Without Him we are all lost. Adding to the teachings of Jesus Christ and his Apostles as you have done does put one on rather shaky ground, however (Revelation 22:18).



The "traditional pentecostal holiness" is NOT what you have claimed it to be. Many old time churches (like Emmanuel Pentecostal Church in Mesquite, TX) were in fact founded by female evangelists who not only cut their hair - but in the case of EPC's founder Bertha Clinton, had bobbed hair of the style fashionable in the 1920s.

In the case of the EPC church linked to above - Pastor Flowers had to take down the photo of Bertha Clinton after his church had hosted the funeral for Cleveland Becton, former Sec. Gen. of the UPC. Today, we just can't show those "bobbed hair women" from our history any longer. I'm sorry that I didn't do a screen capture of the EPC website at the time of Bro. Becton's funeral. Maybe someone else has a pic of Sister Bertha Clinton? Contact me if you do. Thanks!

Consider also, Sarah E. Thistlethwaite Parham - the wife and biographer of the founder of the Apostolic Faith Movement, Charles Fox Parham:



Consider also, Olive Haney, mother of a UPC General Superintendent. In this pic she is shown at the time her parents were missionaries to Japan - among the very first Apostolic Missionaries:



Define "trinitarian?"

The problem here OP Deuce, isn't that we all have somehow failed to maintain your "standards" for what you consider to be "Apostolic." The problem is that you are largely ignorant of Apostolic history and what it means to be "Apostolic."

Consider the following picture. That is Charles Fox Parham again - seated in the middle, surrounded by his students. We'll leave off commenting on all of the facial hair since you didn't bring it up. However, everyone in this picture was a Trinitarian. The teacher, his wife and all of the students. Even the guy holding the banner that reads "Apostolic" is a Trinitarian.

After seeing the picture of Olive Gray Haney in the above post, the post where she is the only woman with clearly "cut hair" - you responded by saying:

Originally Posted by OldPathsII

This is all very nice, but I can't answer for those who chose to believe what they believed, I can only worry about what we know about apostolic truth, about what the bible says!

It sounds like you want to stir the trith into a muddy mess that doesn't make any sense. The Word of God still says, that we MUST be baptized in Jesus name, that we MUST repent, That we MUST receive the Holy Ghost and that happens when we speak in other tongues, that men should NOT have long hair, that a woman should NOT cut her hair, that we are to be MODEST in the way we present ourselves!! If you think Jezebel is a good example to follow, then have at it! I'm not interested in seeing my wife looking like a Jezebel!

I gave you a chance to clarify that rather shocking bit of name-calling when I next posted:

Originally Posted by pelathais

So you're calling Olive Gray Haney a "Jezebel?" A godly woman such as Sister Haney is a "Jezebel" in your eyes?

And, since when did telling the truth equate to "muddy the trith (SIC)?" You deny the truth of the Apostolic Faith movement yet you insist upon your own version as being the only true Apostolic faith.

You went on to say, over the course of a couple of posts that she must have "renounced" that later in life. But, the name-calling by you still stands. You called this woman a "Jezebel."

[Tina]

[OldPathsII]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Can you point out anyone that has said they don't believe a person needs to repent?

BTW can you quote NOW actually saying gays don't need to repent? I've never seen him do that

As horrible as his theology is, and I hate to even call it theology, he's a smart guy, and if he sees the same stop signs I've seen that go up that say that people cant' defend the gay lifestyle on this forum, he's smart enough not t ocome right out and do that but you have to see how much he defends them. The message is pretty clear.