We have to Be perfect in order to make heaven

[mfblume]

We need to be careful to maintain good works, but the actual ticket to glory IS NOT, NOR EVER CAN BE, OUR GOOD WORKS. It is the blood and the work of the cross. When we sin and do not get right with God and intend to continue sinning, we lose out. But "not sinning" is not our ticket to glory. The blood is.

[corvet786c]

When we sin and do not get right with God and intend to continue sinning, we lose out. But "not sinning" is not our ticket to glory. The blood is.


Are you talking about a sin here or a sin there. Whats the diffrence if I sin once or a million times. The blood still covers. I guess what I am trying to say is that these days it is much easier to sin compared to like 100 yrs ago. With technology etc etc.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by corvet786c

When we sin and do not get right with God and intend to continue sinning, we lose out. But "not sinning" is not our ticket to glory. The blood is.


Are you talking about a sin here or a sin there. Whats the diffrence if I sin once or a million times. The blood still covers. I guess what I am trying to say is that these days it is much easier to sin compared to like 100 yrs ago. With technology etc etc.

Sinning happens here and there, and God knows if we intended to sin and not care what He thought, or if it was a mistake due to weak resistance against sin. If we hate the sin and still commit it, then God knows we did not intend to do it despite His truth or not. God forgives weakness and low resistance to sin when we seek it.

But church attendance and constant word and preaching to us from anointed preachers is ABSOLUTELY VITAL to see us get victory.

[Pendragon]

Corvet, another way to describe what I am saying in that post is 'you can't get good [enough] to get God'. If a Christian is struggling repeatedly with a sin, it is likely because their relationship with God is not fundamentally right. Once they get that relationship right and continue to maintain it, those habits will fall by the wayside.

I do not believe Holy Ghost filled Christians struggle with addictions. They struggle with habits and with the weakness of their flesh. An addiction is something you can't control. God will break the shackles that we cannot break ourselves. This is why many UPC members leave the church. They are told they aren't 'Doing it right' because they don't fast enough or get up early enough for prayer or whatever. They are taught if they do these things God will deliver them, but they struggle and struggle and eventually give up in despair because they can't stand the condemnation and embarrassment and head-shaking at the altar every Sunday night. Or maybe they just think God can't deliver them from their 'addiction'.

Breaking old habits and fixing weaknesses in our character is part of our walk with God. It is the daily walk that draws us closer to Him and farther away from our fleshly weaknesses. But you will never be entirely free from the weakness of your flesh as long as you live.

Walking with God involves both a physical walk (the works) and the empowering grace of God. You aren't walking with God if His grace is not helping you on a day to day basis overcome your flesh. You can't have a walk with God if you don't have both works and grace.

But the singular problem with legalism is that it believes Grace FOLLOWS Works. You need both, but you must have an understanding of grace first. I don't know how else to explain other than that. It's almost like the Holy Spirit is gently trying to nudge you out of the driver's seat and saying, 'Hey, just give me a chance here', but too many times we ignore the Spirit and try to manhandle our life down the straight and narrow. You can't even SEE the straight and narrow if He isn't driving. Jesus shouldn't be your co-pilot, He should be the driver.

It is very difficult to truly put this into words. You won't really understand what I, or Paul, is saying until you get a revelation in your spirit. That's what happened to me. I didn't understand this even though I've been in the UPC for many years (in a legalistic church for most of that time).

[Aquila]

I love this passage:

Ephesians 2:4-10
4But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ— by grace you have been saved— 6and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

We are God's "workmanship". That word is, "poiema", and is often used in extrabiblical Greek to depict an artist's "masterpiece". We are God's masterpiece. By grace we've been saved and created as new creatures in Christ Jesus for good works, not by good works.

How can you not live for a God who loves you so and indwells your very being?

[LUKE2447]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I love this passage:

Ephesians 2:4-10
4But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ— by grace you have been saved— 6and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

We are God's "workmanship". That word is, "poiema", and is often used in extrabiblical Greek to depict an artist's "masterpiece". We are God's masterpiece. By grace we've been saved and created as new creatures in Christ Jesus for good works, not by good works.

How can you not live for a God who loves you so and indwells your very being?

because people love themselves more than God even after realizing his love. As usual you must make it like all reformed doctrine irrisistible and that is not the case. Even knowing the love of God and dwelling in his presence they still can turn. Irrisistible Grace is another false doctrine.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

because people love themselves more than God even after realizing his love. As usual you must make it like all reformed doctrine irrisistible and that is not the case. Even knowing the love of God and dwelling in his presence they still can turn. Irrisistible Grace is another false doctrine.

You don't get it Luke. God sees people as the finished product... even before they are born. Yes, God is good. Yes, man has free will. But God sees them as they "are" from an eternal perspective. Thus, if I'm going to fall away in six months and deny Jesus... that's how God sees me NOW. And if I will be faithful to Christ until death, that's how God sees me NOW. And nothing will ever change that. Thus God's grace, as it works in the lives of His children, is assured. Does it absolve us of free will? No. But it's an eternal "perspective". We're making the choices in time that God has already defined us by from eternity.

[Aquila]

And yes... you have to be ABSOLUTELY PERFECT to go to Heaven.

What does this mean?

• You must have NEVER sinned in your past.
• You must NOT sin today.
• And you must not EVER sin your entire life long.

One single sin in your past, present, or future, and all you and I deserve is HELL.

Pefection is demanded of God's holiness and justice. NO EXCEPTIONS.

The good news is...

• Jesus never sinned.
• Jesus isn't sinning.
• Jesus never will sin.

Therefore one's only hope is to be in Christ Jesus. He is our perfection.

[Aquila]

I knew a man with a porn problem. He was encouraged to "repent". He tried to put forth all his effort to walk away from this sin. He had short lived victories only to come crashing down again after varios periods of time. The longest he went was 5 months without pornography. He tried for YEARS to get free by his own efforts. He knew he was breaking God's Law and wept bitterly one night as he contemplated just giving up.

Then the Lord spoke to him.

The Lord told him to stop trying. What he was doing wasn't working. Because it was rooted in self. It was FLESH striving to live in a religious self righteousness. God encouraged Him to simply confess his sin and lay it down, trusting in God's delivering power. He was feeling condemned, and as he studied he began to realize what God's Word says about his identity in Christ. And he began BELIEVING what the Bible said about his identity and being hidden in Jesus Christ. It was about a month later and the man said that one night when he was about to turn to his sin yet again... it just "wasn't appealing". It was like the desire just.... left. He had appropriated truths about who he was in Christ and the Holy Spirit worked a work in him.

He's been porn free for over two and half years now.

He overcame by grace through faith. Being changed. Not by his own self derived efforts.

[NorCal]

I agree, many new Pentecostal converts may seem confused when they try to conform to the "Standards" without truly being changed from the inside. Like I said, we are in the pursuit of Holiness. It is not something learned, or earned. It little things that God changes in you as you die daily.