We have to Be perfect in order to make heaven

[Revelationist]

Originally Posted by Aquila

So we are judged by our degree of "effort"?

I would say it's possible to be judged by your degree of effort on both ends of the scale. I've seen ones that are extreme that I've wondered bout too..

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

I speak of the Jesus People. They were a segment of hippies who came to believe in Jesus. The women many times had long hair and wore long dresses. There were no specific rules about it unlike in "Apostolic" Churches.

I was poking at the peace symbol on the picture. lol

[Charnock]

Originally Posted by Charnock

So...you do your very best to live up to all of God's commands? You obey every Levitical law, every command of Jesus, and you're generous and giving to a fault?

You dress right? You don't smoke, drink or cuss? You go to church? Tithe?

You exhaust yourself being good, and strive to attain perfection, all with the belief that your effort will please God and enhance your chances of securing eternal life?

You must know that you still fall short? That your attitude reeks, at times. That you haven't mastered the wickedness of your heart and mind even though you seem to have all of the externals under control.

And when you are confronted with that reality you will say "I'll leave that in the hands of a just and merciful God."

In other words, God is your last hope - after you've exhausted yourself.

That is a sad and miserable way to live. Especially when you are unsure if His grace, mercy and love will be enough in your hour of need.

I believe God is more than my last hope. He is my only hope.

The performance Gospel stole a great many years of my life. It's a horrible substitute for Truth. I can't imagine a better lie being devised by satan.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Charnock

The performance Gospel stole a great many years of my life. It's a horrible substitute for Truth. I can't imagine a better lie being devised by satan.

The performance gospel? You mean doing the will of God?
Doesnt the scripture say he who does the will of God lives forever? Didnt Jesus say why call me Lord and do not the things I say?

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by Charnock

The performance Gospel stole a great many years of my life. It's a horrible substitute for Truth. I can't imagine a better lie being devised by satan.

I wouldn't call it the performance gospel so much as the gospel of performing the will of the pastor.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Revelationist

I would say it's possible to be judged by your degree of effort on both ends of the scale. I've seen ones that are extreme that I've wondered bout too..

So you believe it is by works?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

You said this in response to me saying this:



Why dont you look at what I said. Jesus DID say to the Laodiceans as many as he loves he rebukes and chastens. Jesus DID say it is better to pluck out eye or cut off hand than commit a sin. The apostle Paul DID say that because of sin MANY of the Corinthians were either sick or dead.

If you do not like the words of Jesus and his apostle then its not me that has another Jesus. For your consideration.

I don't deny that Jesus rebukes and chastens His children.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Cool! Thats the way many of the women DID LOOK in the Jesus Movement of the 70's. I thank YHWH so much I got to be a part of it.

I have to ask this Michael, because I had married into a Jewish family. Are you of Jewish heritage?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by NorCal

If you actually read what I said earlier, I was neither condemning nor condoning beards.

I just gave you 2 examples of why some men teach that specific standard, then and now. I just stated that if you are going to have a beard, conform to a standard that will separate you from the worldly action as portrayed biblically in the Old Testament to the Hebrew Priests. "You shall not round off the hair on your temples or mar the edges of your beard."

As Aquilla stated, this was to separate the Hebrew Priest from those of the Egyptian Cults.

For example, a man probably should not trim his beard in a thin line from each side burn connecting at the chin. This is very predominant in the gay community, and is such associated with the spirit. Would you question anyone in your church if they were to follow that practice? I hope so? Would you explain why? I would hope so also. Thus you have set a standard.

I am not here to Justify nor Condemn your use of facial hair, just giving the rational thinking backed by biblical principles. Not out of a "Holier then Though" mentality.

Real men were wearing facial hair like this long before gays started wearing the style. Also, we have to consider subculture. In my community gay men rarely wear facial hair. This is what I call "separation running scared". If gay men started driving Jeeps...do we stop driving Jeeps? They also wear certain designer jeans... should we choose not to wear designer jeans? They also wear Polo and Aqua Di Gio...should we choose not to wear fine colognes?

This approach to separation get's so silly and is anything but "principled". It's purely reactionary and illogical.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

One can only imagine how many angels she has swarming around her!