We have to Be perfect in order to make heaven

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by mfblume

I know it's hard for some to believe that we can study the bible alone and get thoughts, but I did not study any man's writings from any books. Pigeonhole it all you want, but I studied the BIBLE intensely for those years I was referring to. I studied no Reformer school material whatsoever. I got this directly from the Lord. I do not know where your Reform accusation comes from. I do not know what the Reform movement teaches on any of this.

Amen. I can testify to this. I began attending a more Reformed church and discovered that they believed in many of the things I had gotten from my study of the Scriptures. I'm often challenged for "sources" and can't give them...because I came to my understanding just by studying the Word.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Amen. I can testify to this. I began attending a more Reformed church and discovered that they believed in many of the things I had gotten from my study of the Scriptures. I'm often challenged for "sources" and can't give them...because I came to my understanding just by studying the Word.

Right. I have always been reading whom I consider many good authors. Gene Edwards, Watchman Nee, Gary Garner, and Andrew Murray. And I just today found that Reformed theologians had problems with all these guys. Like I said, I have no clue what Reformed theology teaches on atonement. But I am sure they have some good points, since Luke 2447 seems to think I got my thoughts from reformers. lol I would see scriptures come together and emphasize the issues I stress to this day in what I can only call spiritual illumination and revelation.

Once I saw that CHRIST DIED AS US, things took off and my studies became explosive to my heart.

[TGBTG]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Hey, guys, let's lighten up on Luke. He's just passionate. We've all kinda labeled each other one way or another. We disagree about what is perhaps one of the most difficult subjects (perhaps the central subject) of the Bible. It's okay. I know Luke called me OSAS and Reformed and stuff. I let him know that the labels don't actually fit, though I do agree with some of the points in these theologies (not all). But I love Luke. He's debated me on other issues and is a good guy. I know you all agree. I just want to bring this thread up a notch in our interraction.

......

I might disagree with you here and there Luke, but I love you bro. Hang in there. Your theological ideas do provoke thought and consideration.

Originally Posted by Aquila

I love you too Bro. Blume. Your depth and ability to teach adds to every conversation.

Originally Posted by Aquila

I love you too TGBTG. I love the simplicity of your posts. Sometimes you drop a sentence that speaks volumes.

Originally Posted by Aquila

I love too Pendragon. Your balance is inspiring.

Originally Posted by Aquila

I love you too Michael. You is one crazy brotha. You scare us sometimes... but no doubt you also scare Hell. I want you in my foxhole.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Love you NorCal. Your love for holiness shines through every post I've read.

Originally Posted by Pendragon

My apologies if I offended you with my last post, Luke. Just trying to direct you toward a different perspective on the issues. It was meant to be a nudge not a shove.

I love all you guys too. Hey, if I've offended anyone with my posts, I apologize. Sometimes the flesh just gets in the way when we're trying to prove our points. I believe Aquila's love post reminds us all of this great scripture:

1 Cor 13:2
And if I have prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.

I love y'all

[Michael The Disciple]

For Luke and MTD, what makes you sure you are gonna be in heaven?

Please tell us.

Well that would probably involve making a new thread being there is much to be said about it. This thread was started by a man who read with his own eyes in the holy scriptures that Jesus said there were things happening in the Churches of Revelation that prompted him to say unless they repented they would be lost.

I was simply assuring him he was reading it accurately. I can give you a short version of how one can know they will be in the Kingdom.

2:17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever. 1 John 2:17

[TGBTG]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Well that would probably involve making a new thread being there is much to be said about it. This thread was started by a man who read with his own eyes in the holy scriptures that Jesus said there were things happening in the Churches of Revelation that prompted him to say unless they repented they would be lost.

I was simply assuring him he was reading it accurately. I can give you a short version of how one can know they will be in the Kingdom.

2:17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever. 1 John 2:17

ok, maybe we should start a new thread about that then...we've already hijacked this one though...

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Well that would probably involve making a new thread being there is much to be said about it. This thread was started by a man who read with his own eyes in the holy scriptures that Jesus said there were things happening in the Churches of Revelation that prompted him to say unless they repented they would be lost.

I was simply assuring him he was reading it accurately. I can give you a short version of how one can know they will be in the Kingdom.

2:17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever. 1 John 2:17

I think we all agree that he that doeth the will of God abideth forever.

I think we don't fully agree on what the will of God is. Do we do the will of God out of "effort to be righteous"... or "by nature because we are in Christ our righteousness"?

This is the difference between the ideas of being righteous by our works vs. appropriating the truth that we are a new creature with imputed righteousness, partakers in the divine nature, one with Christ Jesus, and being formed into His likenss... all by the Father's hands according to His grace.

[Aquila]

I had a sin that I struggled with for many years. I'd "rededicate" and try harder, only to fall flat on my face over and over and over. When I began to realize that the Christian’s life isn’t about “living for God” but about “living in Christ” my walk was revolutionized. By living in Christ I now study my Bible not to know what I must do…but to know who I am in Christ Jesus. As I have been appropriating these truths I have experienced much blessing and peace. Realizing that I am one with Jesus has brought such comfort and conviction I cannot describe it. As I continued to struggle with this sin I simply gave in. I prayed to the Lord telling Him that I have tried to overcome this sin and that I am incapable of doing it. I’ve tried to do it by will power and I’ve tried to do it by imploring the Spirit’s help. And time and time again, I find myself falling. I told the Lord that “I give up trying” to fix myself. I “give up” trying to “help” you fix me. I told Him, I simply pray that “YOU change me”. And I surrendered resting in His infinite grace. After a few weeks I didn’t see any change. I only saw an even more intense desire to see the power of God manifest in my life through my deliverance. Then one night, as I was laying in bed sleeping, I found myself suddenly fully awake staring at the ceiling. I was free. Just like that. I got up and I sat on the edge of the bed silent, looking inward, searching for that which had temptation that tormented me for years. It was gone. I got up to get a drink of water and this Scripture came to mind…

Ephesians 2:8
{2:8} For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not
of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: {2:9} Not of works,
lest any man should boast. {2:10} For we are his
workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works,
which God hath before ordained that we should walk in
them.

I realized that all those years I struggled to either fix myself or help Him fix me. And that’s why I struggled. I now know what it means to be “His workmanship”, His “masterpiece”. I don’t strive to work for my righteousness. I rest in His grace, believing that I am dead to the Law. I appropriate my identity in Christ, thereby appropriating His righteousness. Allowing His divine nature to live itself out through me. I reckon it to be so by faith. I have a few more issues I have to lay down before Him. He has taught me that I may give them to Him and rest in His grace. And He will indeed finish the work He began in me. All I have to do is rest in His grace, pray to Him regarding the change I need and…have faith.

[Aquila]

It's funny. We approach our Christian walk like a spiritual 12 step program. If we want to overcome sin and live in victory we must:

1.) Read our Bibles every day.
2.) Pray at least three times a day.
3.) Pray in tongues at least 30 minutes a day.
4.) Try harder.
5.) Rededicate.

.......... and the list could go on and on.

No. All one must do is rest in His grace, lay the need for change before Him, and appropriate who the Bible says we are in Christ by believing it to be so through faith... even if we don't see any evidence of that righteousness yet. When God changes you it's more than just a self willed behavior modification. It's a change in nature and identity. It's you becoming less you... and more Jesus.

If you're tired of a works based salvation...turn to a life of faith. As this song plays, pay attention to the words and let them be your prayer to your loving and merciful Father. He could never love you more... and He'll never love you less. You can't change you. Only He can change you child of God, as you realize who you truly are in Jesus Christ. Rejoice. You already are... perfect in Him. Now allow that reality to flow through you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fj-1SmPthQI

[Aquila]

We received the Holy Spirit by faith... why do we think we can maintain our faith by obedience to a Law that we are dead to? No... we mustn't work to obey the Law after having begun in faith! We now must live and walk by faith. Faith in the Lord who supernaturally changes you, conforming you to the image of His own Son, as Jesus lives His live out through you in the power of the Spirit. This is... walking in the Spirit. If we walk according to our carnal desires or walk according to law... we are walking after the flesh. Walk after the Spirit beloved. For there is no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. And rest in Christ Jesus, as God reveals who you are in His Word, .... for you are complete in Him, who is head of all principality and power. Think not that you must now keep yourself. For He is able to keep you from failing. It all begins and ends in Him.

[Aquila]

Interesting video....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYbAGWitFFY