See IHOP Teaching Acts 2:38 Salvation

[Sam]

Originally Posted by goosonano

In the first century, all Christians used the plan of salvation found in Acts 2:38. Today, only Apostolics still use it.

In the first century the Christian Church preached salvation by faith.

During the first century the Christian church practiced baptism/mikvh, a custom that had carried over from Judaism. We don't have any quote of the words spoken during a baptism taking place in the first century but we assume they did it in the name/authority of Jesus Christ. This baptism//mikveh was a ritual cleansing but not part of a "plan of salvation."

During the first century we do read of people receiving an empowering experience known as the Holy Spirit Baptism or spoken of as the Holy Spirit coming upon them or falling upon them subsequent to their salvation experience. This Holy Ghost Baptism/filling experience is recorded as happening in Acts chapters 2, 8, 9, 10, and 19 but not as part of a "plan of salvation."

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Sam

In the first century the Christian Church preached salvation by faith.

During the first century the Christian church practiced baptism/mikvh, a custom that had carried over from Judaism. We don't have any quote of the words spoken during a baptism taking place in the first century but we assume they did it in the name/authority of Jesus Christ. This baptism//mikveh was a ritual cleansing but not part of a "plan of salvation."

During the first century we do read of people receiving an empowering experience known as the Holy Spirit Baptism or spoken of as the Holy Spirit coming upon them or falling upon them subsequent to their salvation experience. This Holy Ghost Baptism/filling experience is recorded as happening in Acts chapters 2, 8, 9, 10, and 19 but not as part of a "plan of salvation."

Sam,

It is a part of the salvation plan.

Paul said if anyone has not the SPIRIT OF CHRIST they are none of his.

Since this thread is about IHOP coming to the full truth of the new birth I will also mention that David Pawson who apparently instructed them in the doctrine says baptism was done by the early Church "into the name of Jesus". Pg. 69 of The Normal Christian Birth.

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by Orthodoxy

From the IHOP website ("Our Beliefs"):

We believe that salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone. No ordinance, ritual, work or any other activity on the part of man is required or accepted in order to be saved. This saving grace of God, through the power of the Holy Spirit, also sanctifies us by enabling us to do what is pleasing in God's sight in order that we might be progressively conformed to the image of Christ.

We believe that the Lord Jesus Christ baptizes believers in the Holy Spirit, in whom we are also sealed for the day of redemption. The Holy Spirit regenerates, forever indwells, and graciously equips the Christian for godly living and service. Subsequent to conversion, the Spirit desires to fill, empower, and anoint believers for ministry and witness. We also believe that signs and wonders, as well as all the gifts of the Spirit described in the New Testament, are operative today and are designed to testify to the presence of the kingdom and to empower and edify the Church to fulfill its calling and mission.

We believe that water baptism and the Lord's Supper are the two ordinances of the Church to be observed until the time of Christ's return. They are not a means of salvation, but are channels of God's sanctifying grace and blessing to the faithful in Christ Jesus.

OH! How I love the truth of God's Word!
The simplicity of the Gospel-- so plain a fool cannot error in it.

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

The good news is that people can and do change. What we are witnessing is a gradual growth in knowledge by a Charismatic Church. Last year I heard Wes Hall refer to the new birth in terms of Acts 2:38. I noticed a few days later Mike Bickle SEEMED to be cutting him off at his knees and teaching the old traditional Protestant belief.

They have had David Pawson there all last week who teaches Acts 2:38 IS the new birth. That is the context I think of where they are. The teaching on the new birth they have accepted from Pawson is becoming more prevelant. It will take time to work its way through the whole Church but Im confident it will.

I have said this before and I'll say it again.

I am convinced there are former Oneness people either at the top or influencing folks at teh top of this organization.

I have one of their older cd's and there's a guy praying who seems to be praying for the congregants to be lead into the "truth" of the Oneness of God.

The cd has to be about 3 - 4 years old now.

He used the word "truth", but I don't remember if he actually used the word "Oneness."

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

OH! How I love the truth of God's Word!
The simplicity of the Gospel-- so plain a fool cannot error in it.

Did you click on the link to Wes Halls preaching I provided? There you will see what he is teaching NOW.

[Pendragon]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Hi Bro,

Kind of odd. You could not feel the Spirit there. I have personally been moved to tears while watching the webstream so many times I could not count.

Sorry, don't know what to tell you. This was two years ago; maybe they've got ahold of something now? The main room was full of people praying or doing work on their laptops, while a band was playing up at the front. It was pretty packed.

I went there with a sincere and open heart but came away disappointed that there was nothing there. I'm not the kind of person that believes that God is only to be found in UPCI churches, so I was pretty puzzled. I couldn't feel a thing.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Pendragon

Sorry, don't know what to tell you. This was two years ago; maybe they've got ahold of something now? The main room was full of people praying or doing work on their laptops, while a band was playing up at the front. It was pretty packed.

I went there with a sincere and open heart but came away disappointed that there was nothing there. I'm not the kind of person that believes that God is only to be found in UPCI churches, so I was pretty puzzled. I couldn't feel a thing.

If there was "nothing there" I hate to think how one would describe the average Church! So does your feeling supercede my feeling? Could it be that the time you went nothing was going on but at other times the Spirit is alive and well there? I first became aware of them about 2 years ago through the music of Misty Edwards. About 6 months later they began streaming video first just from the prayer room then later from the weekend meetings.

I am very disappointed that they have not embraced the truth of Oneness doctrine that is a big thing.

And YET when it comes to end time teaching they are probably more sound in doctrine and vision than any group I ever knew. Their passion for obedience is very impressive to me. I put that as equal to any particular doctrine in my own discerning of Churches or groups.

They teach a sermon on the mount lifestyle. Long hours of prayer and days of fasting. I guess to me they have a New Testament culture something that I have only seen in a very few Churches.

Thats why I get excited about them.

[Pendragon]

Well now you've made me curious. Next time I'm up that way I'll have to stop in again just to see if the first time was a fluke. If it's the same as before, I may or may not report back, depending on how badly I want to get you riled up. On the other hand, if the wool is dry, I'll be sure to let you know.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Pendragon

Well now you've made me curious. Next time I'm up that way I'll have to stop in again just to see if the first time was a fluke. If it's the same as before, I may or may not report back, depending on how badly I want to get you riled up. On the other hand, if the wool is dry, I'll be sure to let you know.

I wont be riled up. Many people dont like IHOP. By the same token many people dont like Oneness doctrine but I do. It does not usually rile me up when one disagrees with me. I will present what I like about a group and if theres any interest follow through with discussing it.

Am I passionate about what I believe? Of course! Does that mean I am angry? A big NO!

Am I saying I never get angry? No. If I do I dont (by Gods grace) let the Sun go down on it.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Pendragon

Well now you've made me curious. Next time I'm up that way I'll have to stop in again just to see if the first time was a fluke. If it's the same as before, I may or may not report back, depending on how badly I want to get you riled up. On the other hand, if the wool is dry, I'll be sure to let you know.

You may not be aware but on their web site you can view into the Prayer Room 24 hours a day for free.

Then on Friday and Saturday nights the body meetings can be viewed by clicking "weekend services". The Sunday morning meeting is also free on the webstream.

It would be a mistake in judging them to do it on the basis of just a few meetings. They dont teach all they know at a single time. The more I have watched the more I have liked.

Yet by no means do I go along with them on everything.

AND tho I have felt what I believe is the deep impression of the Spirit moving there many times at OTHER times like you I have felt nothing.

So I dont JUST go by what I feel.