Are Infants Really Born Sinless?

[Jacob's Ladder]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

It refers to children being innocent. It refers to children being the ideal state WE must be like
If Children are not innocent, this would be meaningless
Jer 19:4 I will do so because these people have left me and have defiled this place. They have offered sacrifices in it to other gods which neither they nor their ancestors nor the kings of Judah knew anything about. They have filled it with the blood of innocent children.
Adam and Eve became sinners when they sinned and understood good from evil.
But children don't understand good from evil YET
deu 1:39 And as for your little ones, who you said would become a prey, and your children, who today have no knowledge of good or evil, they shall go in there. And to them I will give it, and they shall possess it..
In fact as far as the little children were concerned, they did believe. And the text indicates they were without sin...that it would take an adult to CAUSE them to sin
Mat 18:3 and said, "Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 18:4 Whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 18:5 "Whoever receives one such child in my name receives me,
Mat 18:6 but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened around his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I didn't say it did. It does insinuate their angels always see the fact of God. That is what I said

Im sorry but THIS deserves a
Try reading it again...first of all Mark only goes up to chapter 16...so where you get Mark 18 is anyone's guess
Second of all you broke one of the first rules of interpretation, ignoring the context or taking a verse out of context.
If you read the context you'd see how Jesus was speaking NOT of hsi disciples but of children
Mat 18:2 And calling to him a child, he put him in the midst of them
Mat 18:3 and said, "Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 18:4 Whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 18:7 "Woe to the world for temptations to sin! For it is necessary that temptations come, but woe to the one by whom the temptation comes!
Mat 18:8 And if your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life crippled or lame than with two hands or two feet to be thrown into the eternal fire.
Mat 18:9 And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into the hell of fire.
Mat 18:10 "See that you do not despise one of these little ones. For I tell you that in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father who is in heaven.
No he was referring to children.. He picked a child up and kept referring to the child..see above in red

Praxeas,

You have much reference to children within the scriptures above. What age must a person be to be classified a child, ages 4-11? There’s a law in effect where children under the age of 7 can’t be left alone at home, due to their mental capability of not being able to discern bad from good.

You stated in your above quotes:

1) "And the text indicates they were without sin...that it would take an adult to CAUSE them to sin" and "If you read the context you'd see how Jesus was speaking NOT of hsi disciples but of children"


2) "It refers to children being innocent. It refers to children being the ideal state WE must be like"


Lets review Luke 18:16, "But Jesus called the children to him and said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these."

What information can we obtain from Luke 18:16?

We read that Jesus called these children unto him. These children were able to walk and were mentally capable of understanding and responding to Jesus when He called them. Jesus then said, "the kingdom of God belongs to such as these."

Jesus was explaining that his disciples "should be such as these", with the humility and modesty of children. If you disagree, I'll begin a new thread on those scriptures alone and we can read "what saith the forum."

I agree with you, Jesus was speaking about children. But while he was speaking about the children in his presence, he was indirectly suggesting that we, followers of God, that we must become like "such as these." You quoted the scripture above, "Mat 18:3 and said, "Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven." Here Jesus spoke to adults when telling them they must become like children.


In response to your quotes:

1) The text doesn't indicate these children were sinless! Again, you quoted above, "Mat 18:6 but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened around his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea."

Notice Jesus said if you cause one of these little ones "who believe in me to sin." Once again, read the entire context as you suggested. He was indirectly referring to His followers. Remember, Jesus called on the child, the child didn't call on Jesus. The scripture neither gives any reference that the child was a believer. For all we know these children were walking by when Jesus called on them.

How much can we really become as children when Paul states, 1 Corinthians 13:11, When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me.



2) Really, how innocent are children? Lets turn to 2 Kings 2:23

"And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head."

Surely these children knew good from evil? Their insults toward the prophet came at a deep cost. Many of these kids where killed when God's Judgment fell.

I personally know a pastor whose daughters received the Holy Ghost around 5 to 6 years of age and others were 4 years old. In your opinion, can a child sin at ages 4-5-6? If no, do they need to obey Acts 2:38? How do these girls acknowledge Jesus as their savior without repenting of their sins?


According to Peter in Acts 2:38, Repent, and be baptized every one of you. Then in verse 39 Peter states, For the promise is unto you, and to your children, .....even as many as the LORD our God shall call.

What promise did Peter speak about? Holy Ghost infilling of course. Why would their children need to repent if they're innocent? Surely little children can't be sinners, they're innocent, correct?


Here's a question for you. If children at age 4-6 are sinning, and they die without Holy Ghost infilling and Jesus name baptism, in your opinion, would these sinning children be lost for eternity? Understanding of course that these children knew good from evil.