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07-20-2011, 06:41 PM
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ultra con (at least here)
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: The Woodlands, Texas
Posts: 1,962
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Re: ACN National Conference in Bryant, Arkansas
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Originally Posted by CC1
That sounds like a great start. This org. might fulfill the original intent of the UPC at the time of the merger. A Oneness org. that allows for diversity in opinion as to salvation.
I had thought at one time that Global (GNCM) might fill that role but they have pursued a more open path by not making a Oneness theological position a requirement for membership.
It is not that I think trinitarians are going to hell or polytheistic it is just that I do like the idea of a group that has people of a like mind when it comes to the Oneness doctrine who are not legalists.
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CC1. Agree 100%. Only reason could not go with Global. Scot Jones is a great leader. And don't know any preachers in it I would not openly fellowship. But when it comes to being licensed ACN for me was only way to go.
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07-20-2011, 06:44 PM
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ultra con (at least here)
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: The Woodlands, Texas
Posts: 1,962
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Re: ACN National Conference in Bryant, Arkansas
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Originally Posted by James Griffin
being filled with the Holy Ghost, and speaking with other tongues, as the Spirit enables, as an endowment of power from on high to be Christ’s witnesses.
Above is the actual quote from the ACN tenents of faith.
I am very much PCI my District Superindent and Sr Pastor is very PAJC in doctrine, but really cannot tell a difference from the pulpit.
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Bump for Jason. One steppers are welcome. It has never been a point of contention.
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07-20-2011, 10:43 PM
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Saved by Grace
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Decatur, TX
Posts: 5,247
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by James Griffin
Bump for Jason. One steppers are welcome. It has never been a point of contention.
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Thanks bro. James, but I can't see myself carrying a card with any org that officially endorses the initial evidence doctrine.
__________________
"Resolved: That all men should live to the glory of God. Resolved, secondly: That whether or not anyone else does, I will." ~Jonathan Edwards
"The only man who has the right to say he is justified by grace alone is the man who has left all to follow Christ." ~Dietrich Bonheoffer, The Cost of Discipleship
"Preachers who should be fishing for men are now too often fishing for compliments from men." ~Leonard Ravenhill
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07-21-2011, 05:39 AM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,711
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Re: ACN National Conference in Bryant, Arkansas
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Originally Posted by Jason Badejo
Thanks bro. James, but I can't see myself carrying a card with any org that officially endorses the initial evidence doctrine.
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are there any pentecostals that don't believe in tongues as initial evidence besides DA and Sam?
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07-21-2011, 08:43 AM
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Administrator
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 16,848
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Re: ACN National Conference in Bryant, Arkansas
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind
are there any pentecostals that don't believe in tongues as initial evidence besides DA and Sam?
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I think you have to take into consideration that some folks make a distinction between being filled with the Holy Spirit and the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Some folks believe you are filled with the Holy Spirit when you repent and confess Christ as your saviour and that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is a different thing that tongues is the evidence of.
__________________
"I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"
Titus2woman on AFF
"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.
"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.
"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."
Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
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07-21-2011, 02:23 PM
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Saved by Grace
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Decatur, TX
Posts: 5,247
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind
are there any pentecostals that don't believe in tongues as initial evidence besides DA and Sam?
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I don't really consider myself pentecostal anymore, more like conservative evangelical, but of course oneness in theology and baptism, big no nos for most evangelical fellowships.
__________________
"Resolved: That all men should live to the glory of God. Resolved, secondly: That whether or not anyone else does, I will." ~Jonathan Edwards
"The only man who has the right to say he is justified by grace alone is the man who has left all to follow Christ." ~Dietrich Bonheoffer, The Cost of Discipleship
"Preachers who should be fishing for men are now too often fishing for compliments from men." ~Leonard Ravenhill
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07-21-2011, 02:27 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Lexington KY
Posts: 4,343
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Re: ACN National Conference in Bryant, Arkansas
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Badejo
I don't really consider myself pentecostal anymore, more like conservative evangelical, but of course oneness in theology and baptism, big no nos for most evangelical fellowships.
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Have you found any that taught baptism in Jesus name and oneness but shy away from tongues as initial?
__________________
To be able to unite in difference carries more weight than all the opinions the universe can hold
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07-21-2011, 06:50 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 114
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Re: ACN National Conference in Bryant, Arkansas
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Badejo
Thanks bro. James, but I can't see myself carrying a card with any org that officially endorses the initial evidence doctrine.
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Jason,
I'm not sure what you are referring to as "the initial evidence" doctrine. I don't think you will find ANY Pentecostal Org, trinity or oneness, that does not "at least" recognize those who believe that Speaking in Tongues is the initial evidence of Baptism in the Holy Ghost.
Now there are some Baptist or Presbyterian groups that might agree with you.
There are plenty of people who believe that speaking in tongues is the initial evidence of being "baptized" in the Holy Ghost without believing that you must speak in tongues to be saved.
They believe there is a difference between the measure of God's spirit that you recieve at Salvation and the Baptism of the Holy Ghost.
Either way, you will not find an organization made up of more than one person that is going to agree 100 % on anything. The Bible is clear that we dwell in the unity of the Spirit...until we come into the unity of the faith...in other words...we should agree to disagree on certain points of doctrine and work together in harmony to share the Gospel with as many as possible.
We need to talk in person sometime.
Blessings, Daniel
Last edited by PastorDaniel; 07-21-2011 at 06:52 PM.
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07-21-2011, 07:27 PM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,197
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Re: ACN National Conference in Bryant, Arkansas
Ok I'll really mix things up!
While I acknowledge most Pentecostals receive the Holy Spirit with evidence of speaking in tongues, I am not at at all ready to say non tongue-speakers aren't Spirit filled. I just think the evidence shows otherwise. There are many Christians who exhibit the fruit of the Spirit, and clearly manifest Jesus in their lives. Far it be from me to cast any judgement on them, or even distinguish my experience as superior to theirs.
If this is too blunt for my Pentecostal counterparts - I'm sorry. Please don't ask me for an exegetic defense - I have none to give - I am not a theologian.
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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07-21-2011, 07:41 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 114
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Re: ACN National Conference in Bryant, Arkansas
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoovie
Ok I'll really mix things up!
While I acknowledge most Pentecostals receive the Holy Spirit with evidence of speaking in tongues, I am not at at all ready to say non tongue-speakers aren't Spirit filled. I just think the evidence shows otherwise. There are many Christians who exhibit the fruit of the Spirit, and clearly manifest Jesus in their lives. Far it be from me to cast any judgement on them, or even distinguish my experience as superior to theirs.
If this is too blunt for my Pentecostal counterparts - I'm sorry. Please don't ask me for an exegetic defense - I have none to give - I am not a theologian.
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I sort of have the same opinion as you. I am a Seminary student which has forced me to participate in and draft some exegetic arguments...however, I still don't consider myself a Theologian. Also, while I am Pentecostal, and while I do speak in Tongues at appropriate times. I feel that Paul's guidelines were pretty strict and are often abused in Pentecostal circles. I don't think one can just walk around gibber-gabbering and say they are speaking in tongues. I also think the heavy emphasis on tongues for salvation has caused many to "fake" it...and many preachers will even claim it for them...take Borat for example...according a well known UPC evangelist, think his name last name is Godwin, "He's Got it"...and it is obvious all he done was slur his speach...I know they have recanted his baptism...but how many stand up on the platform with the preacher bragging and the person sheepishly nodding their head only to walk out confused??
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