What Must I Do To Be Saved? - Page 6

bbyrd009 · #51 01-06-2012, 06:57 AM

I see this a lot among Christians; well meaning people, seeking God. I participated in it all my life, so please take this just for what it is worth, as my feeling is this is programmed into us; but we turn "What must I do to be saved" into "What must you do to be lost"...every time, without fail. It is how we initially relate, or fail to personally relate "salvation," and it's good to see this conversation taking place, even from a death centric pov.

RandyWayne · #52 01-06-2012, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay

I do not fault you taste. I would not look good if dressed as a 1930s housewife.

(All guy here!!)

I did say that in more than 150 years basic styles for guys have not changed that much.

This is very true. What is/was old is now new again, or will be soon.

By the way, the gun not withstanding, how would you know these guys were, or were not, UPC?

NorCal · #53 01-06-2012, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

This is very true. What is/was old is now new again, or will be soon.

By the way, the gun not withstanding, how would you know these guys were, or were not, UPC?

Naw, They don't have the proper "White Collars". Typical feds.

The Lemon · #54 01-06-2012, 12:47 PM

Well, this thread has been moderately entertaining. I do wonder if we generally assimilate into and become products of our environment. I mean, if I hang out in bars all the time, most likely at some point I will end up drinking something other then coke.

Conversely, if I hang out in strict holiness standard preaching churches, will I not also at some point feel the need to look like whom I am spending the majority of my time with?

I am all for genuwine conviction from God on all areas of life, including dress etc. But I can't help but wonder if some "convictions" are really from God or just adopted from the environment so a person can fit into and feel a part of the "church". Makes one think and ponder...

Many I have talked to simply can not see how a person can be saved (ala ACTS 2:38) and NOT look "holy" (You know, the "list" on here). Regardless of Biblically accurate conversion experience, you simply are not saved if say you are a woman and you wear earrings (or something of that nature). It is simply astounding to me that anyone can say that standards are not salvation, but automatically include them in with salvation if anyone in the church decides to "change their conviction" on something..WOW!

Anyway...

RandyWayne · #55 01-06-2012, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Lemon

Well, this thread has been moderately entertaining. I do wonder if we generally assimilate into and become products of our environment. I mean, if I hang out in bars all the time, most likely at some point I will end up drinking something other then coke.

Conversely, if I hang out in strict holiness standard preaching churches, will I not also at some point feel the need to look like whom I am spending the majority of my time with?

I am all for genuwine conviction from God on all areas of life, including dress etc. But I can't help but wonder if some "convictions" are really from God or just adopted from the environment so a person can fit into and feel a part of the "church". Makes one think and ponder...

Many I have talked to simply can not see how a person can be saved (ala ACTS 2:38) and NOT look "holy" (You know, the "list" on here). Regardless of Biblically accurate conversion experience, you simply are not saved if say you are a woman and you wear earrings (or something of that nature). It is simply astounding to me that anyone can say that standards are not salvation, but automatically include them in with salvation if anyone in the church decides to "change their conviction" on something..WOW!

Anyway...

"Some? Some convictions? Don't tell me about some convictions..... Try MOST convictions are a product of the environment."

trialedbyfire · #56 01-06-2012, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deacon blues

For fun let's list ALL of the requirements (extra-biblical) that we must do to go heaven:

Don't go to movies,
Don't cut your hair
Don't wear make up
Don't wear jewelry
Don't wear pants (women only)
Don't wear shorts
Don't have a beard, mustache, sideburns, goatee, soul patch
Don't own a tv
Don't watch a tv
Don't watch DVDs or videos or 16 mm filmstrips
Don't listen to wurrly music
Don't go to amusement parks
Don't go to baseball games
Don't go to football games
Don't go to hockey games
Don't go to basketball games
Don't play Little League anything
Don't participate in school sports
Don't participate in any school extra curricular activities
Don't wear wedding rangs
Don't wear short sleeves
Don't wear colored chapstick

Just to name a few...

Anyone else want to add to the list?

This ones for Timmy

Jesus... I just highlighted everything that I've done on this list.

I'm goin straight to Hell...

Anyway. The Bible says you must be born again. We throw the baby out with the bath water to our own damnation. No, man made standards can't condemn you to Hell as much as they can't save you.

I ABSOLUTELY LOVE football, I go to my old high school's games, go to college games, go to pro games, and play it in my liesure time, etc. I have a TV, but don't watch it much and it stays on CNN (yes I do have personal convictions about watching what I watch). I watch movies. I wear shorts.

Just because WE (those who have been born again) have those liberties, does not mean that we neglect the born again process.

There is only one way to see and enter the Kingdom of God. That is to be born again of the water and of the spirit. I still maintain that there is only one way to be saved: repentence, water baptism in the Name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sin, and the indwelling of the Holy Ghost which will subsequently cause the believer to live a holy and sanctified life pleasing to the Lord God free from the bondage of SIN (not standards).

Just because you can wear pants and make it to heaven doesn't mean you can cheat God of what he requires. You have to deal with the issue of sin before you can make it in.

KeptByTheWord · #57 01-06-2012, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay

I do not view Romans 14 as an appropriate chapter for discussing the relaxation of standards, as he is expressing opposition to their eating meats offered unto idols (if I remember my passage correctly). That was one of the first standards initiated into the church, and that is documented in the book of Acts..

Jay, see the word highlighted in your statement - standards... exactly my point. You are trying to skirt the issue by saying this doesn't apply to you, but it does. If those things were their standards then, and there were differences of opinion back then, then we understand that Paul was trying to make something clear... do NOT judge your brother to be any less or more holy than yourself because of the "standard" he lives by.

Get my drift? It DOES apply to you and me today. The principle of what he was teaching still applies. You eat no meat, fine. I eat all meat, fine. You dress according to a certain set of standards, fine. I feel no compulsion to live by your standards, and live by the ones God gave me.. fine! Let's NOT judge one another.

That is my point! Our standards or convictions are for each of us individually, not corporately, and the more important thing at stake is - do you have love one for your brother who may not agree or do things as you do? Do you love your brother who wears a beard, or shorts or maybe even smokes.... do you love a sister who cuts her hair, and wears jewelry? Could you be eating no "meat" and thinking you are more holy than those who believe it is okay to partake of the "meat" with the principle of the verse being applied here.

John 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

John 13:35 By this shall all [men] know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

I think this scripture is one of the scriptures that speaks loudest against the clothing holiness standard movement in all the Bible - here is a new commandment given by Jesus to love one another, and BY THIS LOVE shall men know ye are my disciples, (notice he didn't say standards of separation!!!) His highest standard was love, not clothing!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay

As for the rest, the Bible is abundantly clear that the Church doe not look, act, talk, sing, pray, dress, or in any other way resemble the world.

Jay, could you please answer these next two questions for me. Thanks.

One: Can you give me a scripture that equates holiness, and SALVATION with clothing?

Two: Who is the world?

trialedbyfire · #58 01-06-2012, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Jay, see the word highlighted in your statement - standards... exactly my point. You are trying to skirt the issue by saying this doesn't apply to you, but it does. If those things were their standards then, and there were differences of opinion back then, then we understand that Paul was trying to make something clear... do NOT judge your brother to be any less or more holy than yourself because of the "standard" he lives by.

Get my drift? It DOES apply to you and me today. The principle of what he was teaching still applies. You eat no meat, fine. I eat all meat, fine. You dress according to a certain set of standards, fine. I feel no compulsion to live by your standards, and live by the ones God gave me.. fine! Let's NOT judge one another.

That is my point! Our standards or convictions are for each of us individually, not corporately, and the more important thing at stake is - do you have love one for your brother who may not agree or do things as you do? Do you love your brother who wears a beard, or shorts or maybe even smokes.... do you love a sister who cuts her hair, and wears jewelry? Could you be eating no "meat" and thinking you are more holy than those who believe it is okay to partake of the "meat" with the principle of the verse being applied here.

John 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

John 13:35 By this shall all [men] know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

I think this scripture is one of the scriptures that speaks loudest against the clothing holiness standard movement in all the Bible - here is a new commandment given by Jesus to love one another, and BY THIS LOVE shall men know ye are my disciples, (notice he didn't say standards of separation!!!) His highest standard was love, not clothing!

Jay, could you please answer these next two questions for me. Thanks.

One: Can you give me a scripture that equates holiness, and SALVATION with clothing?

Two: Who is the world?

No, but there is scripture regarding modest dress and gender identity. Therefore such issues should indeed be deemed important scripturally. The Holy Spirit directs us and guides us two main ways individually and collectively. Pastors are directed by the Holy Spirit to teach and guide by example their members. Standards can therefore be set by the pastors as long as there is biblical reasoning behind them, and as long as those standards don't replace the plan of salvation. Those under that pastor are to be obedient out of love and out of a desire to serve God.

Anyway... dressing "holy" really has nothing to do with holiness.

HOWEVER!!!!! How you dress is a representation of a.) your God, b.) your church, c.) yourself. And yes it does have an impact on the Kingdom of God.