All Trinitarians are Lost!!!!!!!!!!!

[bbyrd009]

Originally Posted by Timmy

OK, so what we have is the truly saved, and the deluded. They both "know" they are saved, but only the truly saved are correct in that assurance, and the deluded are wrong. But they don't know they're wrong. They themselves would say exactly what you say, that they know that they know that they know.

Yes, but then, in about five minutes, they'll say something that makes it obvious to you, too, that they are fooling themselves...

[TGBTG]

Originally Posted by Timmy

OK, so what we have is the truly saved, and the deluded. They both "know" they are saved, but only the truly saved are correct in that assurance, and the deluded are wrong. But they don't know they're wrong. They themselves would say exactly what you say, that they know that they know that they know.



I think I'll stand by my claim. Sorry.

That's an assumption you're making. They claim to know, but their heart is not at peace. Now, they will NOT say it out rightly that they are not right with God. But deep down in their heart, they are not at peace with God. Of course, they will claim to people that they are saved.

i John 3
20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.
21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.

The thing is those who are saved and those who are not saved both claim to be saved. Those who are not saved (who claim to be saved), however are not at peace with God, but they just claim to be saved for various reasons:

Some to look religious
some were raised in church, so to be in the "in crowd" (their heart condemns them though).

So there's no delusion involved at all, just hypocrisy on the side of those who claim to be saved while their heart really does condemn them.

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by TGBTG

That's an assumption you're making. They claim to know, but their heart is not at peace. Now, they will NOT say it out rightly that they are not right with God. But deep down in their heart, they are not at peace with God. Of course, they will claim to people that they are saved.

i John 3
20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.
21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.

The thing is those who are saved and those who are not saved both claim to be saved. Those who are not saved (who claim to be saved), however are not at peace with God, but they just claim to be saved for various reasons:

Some to look religious
some were raised in church, so to be in the "in crowd" (their heart condemns them though).

So there's no delusion involved at all, just hypocrisy on the side of those who claim to be saved while their heart really does condemn them.

I have read this verse time and time again, but I am not sure that this verse means what you are saying it means.

The phrase, "God is greater than our heart" is not clear to me.


Please explain your confidence in your interpretation of this scripture in your application to this subject.

[TGBTG]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

I have read this verse time and time again, but I am not sure that this verse means what you are saying it means.

The phrase, "God is greater than our heart" is not clear to me.


Please explain your confidence in your interpretation of this scripture in your application to this subject.

"God is greater than our heart" IOW, if your heart condemns you, then you are obviously not in right standing before God. That's what it's saying.

For more context:
I John 3
18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.
20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.
21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.

Notice it says God is greater than our hearts and God knows all things. Your heart knows the things that you have done. People around you might not know the things you do. So if you're heart condemns you, then you better know that God is not pleased with you, for God is greater than our hearts. God knows more than your heart even does.

Now, on the flip side, when you approach God, and your heart does not condemn you, then you have confidence towards God.

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by TGBTG

"God is greater than our heart" IOW, if your heart condemns you, then you are obviously not in right standing before God. That's what it's saying.

For more context:
I John 3
18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.
20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.
21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.

Notice it says God is greater than our hearts and God knows all things. Your heart knows the things that you have done. People around you might not know the things you do. So if you're heart condemns you, then you better know that God is not pleased with you, for God is greater than our hearts. God knows more than your heart even does.

Now, on the flip side, when you approach God, and your heart does not condemn you, then you have confidence towards God.

Thank you.

I appreciate this.

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by TGBTG

"God is greater than our heart" IOW, if your heart condemns you, then you are obviously not in right standing before God. That's what it's saying.

For more context:
I John 3
18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.
20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.
21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.

Notice it says God is greater than our hearts and God knows all things. Your heart knows the things that you have done. People around you might not know the things you do. So if you're heart condemns you, then you better know that God is not pleased with you, for God is greater than our hearts. God knows more than your heart even does.

Now, on the flip side, when you approach God, and your heart does not condemn you, then you have confidence towards God.

Question:

How does conviction work into your interpretation of this scripture?


I imagine that if a believer sins and feels conviction for that sin, they are where they need to be. This has been my personal experience.

On the flip side, if that believer sins and doesn't feel conviction, I would wonder about their salvation.

[Jermyn Davidson]

When a spirit of conviction sweeps a congregation, was the congregation on their way to hell before that sermon?

If so, when and how did they backslide so terribly and not even know it?

[TGBTG]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

Question:

How does conviction work into your interpretation of this scripture?


I imagine that if a believer sins and feels conviction for that sin, they are where they need to be. This has been my personal experience.

On the flip side, if that believer sins and doesn't feel conviction, I would wonder about their salvation.

Conviction is not condemnation to hell. That's something we have to get right.

Jesus said he that believeth on me HAS PASSED FROM DEATH UNTO LIFE and SHALL NOT come into Condemnation. John 5:24

What CONDEMNS a person to HELL is unbelief in the atoning work of our Lord Jesus Christ.

John 3:18
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.


Conviction shows that the Holy Spirit is at work in the life of the believer.

Heb 12
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

God deals with us as children when he convicts us of sin. A sinner is not convicted of his sin because he is NOT a child of God.
Let's not forget that that it is possible for an unbeliever to feel bad for something they have done. However, Godly conviction leads to drawing closer to God.

An unbeliever who feels bad for something they have done tries to do better. IOW, glorifies the flesh.

A convicted believer runs to Jesus, knowing that in his flesh is no good thing. (Rom 7:18)

[TGBTG]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

When a spirit of conviction sweeps a congregation, was the congregation on their way to hell before that sermon?

If so, when and how did they backslide so terribly and not even know it?

Possibly (lol) if they were not yet born again.

If they were born again, they were NOT on their way to hell. They being convicted shows that God is dealing with them as children.

Heb 12:9-11, Rev 3:19

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I so love this text...

Acts 18:24-26
24 And a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man, and mighty in the scriptures, came to Ephesus.
25 This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John.
26 And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.

You'll notice that Aquila and Priscilla didn't berate or condemn Apollos for not understanding the fulness of truth. Instead, they took him aside and labored with him lovingly to expound unto him the way of God more perfectly.

That SHOULD be our calling to the traditional church. Instead... a spirit of bitterness has alienated us from the very believers that God intends us to bring revival to.