Semantics. You're assuming that just because they use a terminology you disagree with that there is something wrong with them. lol
I must've missed where I said that. Please provide the quote.
Quote:
If a born again Christian who still struggles from same gender attraction wishes to call themselves a "gay Christian"... what right have you to tell them they can't and question their walk and motives? That's my point.
Why would you think I'm questioning their walk and motives? Quotes, please.
Quote:
While you and I might disagree and feel that simply calling one's self a believer or a Christian is good enough... they don't. They've felt the pressure, the shame, the hate, the discrimination, the suspecion, the being called reprobate, and the list goes on and on. Like must unpopular groups who eventually want to be heard... they claim the identity and refuse to be ignored.
Again with the assumptions! Where did I say I was ignoring them? You've created a big ol' Strawman here, my friend.
Quote:
So, I have no issue with the terminology. I don't hike my dress up like it's gross and twaddle away screaming and accusing. I'm just saying... listen to them. Take the time to hear them. Hear their pleas. Their concerns. Their struggles. Their temptations. Their fears. Even if they call themselves.... *gasp!* "gay Christians".
And... once again you're assuming I'm coming from a position of not hearing them. How do you know I don't counsel with them every day? And yet I still choose to steer them- and every one else I might counsel- towards biblical doctrine and biblical labels. There is power in the Word of God, in the Name of God, and in the Spirit of God. What hurting people need is the good news of the Gospel, that Jesus Christ really does change lives, sometimes immediately and miraculously, and always progressively and continually for the rest of their lives as they continue to walk in the Spirit. Every new day we walk in the Spirit is a day we walk away from our former self and a day closer to being conformed to the image of Jesus Christ- regardless of the struggles and temptations. "Christian" means one who is "Christ-like". That's the image we should identify with every day, not the image of our former self.
And that is why I advocate bearing the label- and only that label- of the one in whose image we are becoming conformed: Christian.
Are you saying that a Christian, who has same gender attraction and chooses to be celibate out of love and devotion for Christ, has no right to admit, or acknowledge, that they are gay?
If he lives in the USA he does have that "right".
At the very least, one who does that is strengthening the hand of the enemy and living beneath the authority they have in Christ.
__________________ "It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
Aquila, suppose a normal unmarried guy got saved, and kept being a hound-dog, laughed at celibacy, would he qualify as a "Hound-dog Christian?"
And in all fairness, wouldn't this be fairly termed an issue of youth? My meaning being that for about 10 years or so, humans are pretty hormonal, and decisions that seem unthinkable at 20 become options at 35?
First, you define him as "normal". He's a sinful abomination before God, just like the gay person. We'd ask him to be celibate until marriage. We wouldn't judge him for being attracted to women if he chose celibacy. Nor would we judge him if he called himself "straight".
At the very least, one who does that is strengthening the hand of the enemy and living beneath the authority they have in Christ.
Or... they are proving one can have same gender attraction and live in celibate victory for Christ. Think about it. The world says they can't do it. The "gay Christian" proves them WRONG.
I personally have a problem with a homosexual calling themselves "gay;" my grandmother is "gay," and she is not a homosexual, and I wonder if this thread might become clearer if we referred to them as "Homosexual Christians" for clarity?
And please, you're a homosexual who is celibate because you believe in God, but you still feel the label is appropriate? What is wrong with this picture? At the end of the day, you can call yourself whatever you want, though, I guess.
It just comes across as though you're doing yourself more harm than good in denying sin, or trying to legitimize it (this is actually central to the real issue), when you would be respected, in today's world, as an apparently normal homosexual person, or a total flame if you desired, by whoever might respect you for that, and I might surely be one of them. I respect Freddie Mercury. But he wasn't ashamed of what he was, and you shouldn't be either, no matter who you are, YOU ARE, and you can proceed from there to become whatever you set your mind to.
If you are conflicted because you also believe in God, then trust that God understands this, and is not ashamed of you. At all. Look into "codependency," we're all coda here now, and understand that as you age, and gain more discernment, if that is truly what you seek after, you will think differently about what seems of paramount importance, now. Just make it a process, and have a good life, and above everything else, drop the shame, you are a good person.
I must've missed where I said that. Please provide the quote.
Why would you think I'm questioning their walk and motives? Quotes, please.
Again with the assumptions! Where did I say I was ignoring them? You've created a big ol' Strawman here, my friend.
And... once again you're assuming I'm coming from a position of not hearing them. How do you know I don't counsel with them every day? And yet I still choose to steer them- and every one else I might counsel- towards biblical doctrine and biblical labels. There is power in the Word of God, in the Name of God, and in the Spirit of God. What hurting people need is the good news of the Gospel, that Jesus Christ really does change lives, sometimes immediately and miraculously, and always progressively and continually for the rest of their lives as they continue to walk in the Spirit. Every new day we walk in the Spirit is a day we walk away from our former self and a day closer to being conformed to the image of Jesus Christ- regardless of the struggles and temptations. "Christian" means one who is "Christ-like". That's the image we should identify with every day, not the image of our former self.
And that is why I advocate bearing the label- and only that label- of the one in whose image we are becoming conformed: Christian.
Bump for Aquila
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
Linear Mode
