Dude, I understand what you advocate. But don't you realize that rather you or I advocate that, many "gay Christians" WANT to be recognized as what they are? Why? Because the church has historically put such a stygma on them. They want to be able to say, "Hey, I'm gay and I'm a devout Christian too."
I would say that if someone actually wanted to say, "Hey, I'm gay and I'm a devout Christian too", then they have a fundamental misunderstanding of what takes place in the life of a believer when they are born again.
When we become born again, we are freed from our sin nature (Ro 8:2). That doesn't mean we immediately stop feeling the allure of sin, although over time the carnal senses grow more dim as we develop spiritual desires within. What it DOES mean is that we are no longer bound under chains to the sin nature. And because of this, God himself no longer identifies us with our past "old creature". He now identifies us as a "new creature". This is not to ignore the fact that, even as a new creature, we continue to experience temptation, and yes, it can be a real struggle at times. Jesus himself had to fight against genuine temptation. But here's a very important point to remember: simply because Jesus himself was tempted to turn stones into bread doesn't mean he should've been labeled a "glutton", nor when he was tempted by Satan to fall down and worship him meant that Jesus now should've been labeled an "idolator".
In like manner, we as Christians- new creatures- will suffer temptation. But that doesn't mean we should identify ourselves by the temptations we experience. We may even be tempted to sin in the very same manner that heretofore we were bound in chains. But that doesn't mean we should identify or label ourselves based on that temptation. Why? Because Scripture never does.
For example, let's say that before I became born again, I was bound in chains to alcohol. I could rightly have been labeled an "alcoholic". After I became born again, Christ freed me from the bonds of alcohol, and I became a new creature. But now let's say that- even as a new creature- I continue to be tempted by alcohol. Simply because I continue to be tempted by that which Christ loosed me from DOESN'T mean I continue to wear the label "alcoholic", nor do I label myself "alcoholic Christian".
And this was my whole point in quoting 1Cor 6:9-11. Paul never said in that passage that those who were once labeled "X", and who were now labeled "Christian", wouldn't continue to suffer temptation "X". But even if they did continue to suffer temptation in the very same area, he nevertheless identified them as "washed", "sanctified" and "justified". They were now identified with what Christ had done for them, not for what they had been delivered from, or even what they continued to struggle with.
See where I'm coming from? At the end of the day, people can label themselves however they want to, but that doesn't make it biblical, and if something is not biblical, then how can we say that it is truly helpful? If we truly want to help these people, and any others who continue to struggle with temptation (which is all of us!), why not help them to identify with what Christ has done and is doing for them, rather than identifying with past labels of the "old creature"? Scripture doesn't, so why should we?
What do you think about the love that a homosexual couple has (or claims to have) for each other? Is it (or can it be) really love, of the same type that a heterosexual couple has (or claims to have )?
__________________
Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
I would say that if someone actually wanted to say, "Hey, I'm gay and I'm a devout Christian too", then they have a fundamental misunderstanding of what takes place in the life of a believer when they are born again.
When we become born again, we are freed from our sin nature (Ro 8:2). That doesn't mean we immediately stop feeling the allure of sin, although over time the carnal senses grow more dim as we develop spiritual desires within. What it DOES mean is that we are no longer bound under chains to the sin nature. And because of this, God himself no longer identifies us with our past "old creature". He now identifies us as a "new creature". This is not to ignore the fact that, even as a new creature, we continue to experience temptation, and yes, it can be a real struggle at times. Jesus himself had to fight against genuine temptation. But here's a very important point to remember: simply because Jesus himself was tempted to turn stones into bread doesn't mean he should've been labeled a "glutton", nor when he was tempted by Satan to fall down and worship him meant that Jesus now should've been labeled an "idolator".
In like manner, we as Christians- new creatures- will suffer temptation. But that doesn't mean we should identify ourselves by the temptations we experience. We may even be tempted to sin in the very same manner that heretofore we were bound in chains. But that doesn't mean we should identify or label ourselves based on that temptation. Why? Because Scripture never does.
For example, let's say that before I became born again, I was bound in chains to alcohol. I could rightly have been labeled an "alcoholic". After I became born again, Christ freed me from the bonds of alcohol, and I became a new creature. But now let's say that- even as a new creature- I continue to be tempted by alcohol. Simply because I continue to be tempted by that which Christ loosed me from DOESN'T mean I continue to wear the label "alcoholic", nor do I label myself "alcoholic Christian".
And this was my whole point in quoting 1Cor 6:9-11. Paul never said in that passage that those who were once labeled "X", and who were now labeled "Christian", wouldn't continue to suffer temptation "X". But even if they did continue to suffer temptation in the very same area, he nevertheless identified them as "washed", "sanctified" and "justified". They were now identified with what Christ had done for them, not for what they had been delivered from, or even what they continued to struggle with.
See where I'm coming from? At the end of the day, people can label themselves however they want to, but that doesn't make it biblical, and if something is not biblical, then how can we say that it is truly helpful? If we truly want to help these people, and any others who continue to struggle with temptation (which is all of us!), why not help them to identify with what Christ has done and is doing for them, rather than identifying with past labels of the "old creature"? Scripture doesn't, so why should we?
I do see where you're coming from. So... according to you should I seek to "correct" my friend who calls himself a "gay Christian"?
I hope you can see what I'm saying. While I agree with your overall premise... it's the application of that premise that I feel is unwaranted. Do I walk around "correcting" believers who say, "I'm a gay Christian. I know God can save those caught up in that lifestyle."
In my opinion, no. Instead of getting into a battle of wording... I'd like to pray with them about their friends and family who might need prayer.
What do you think about the love that a homosexual couple has (or claims to have) for each other? Is it (or can it be) really love, of the same type that a heterosexual couple has (or claims to have )?
Depends...is the hetero baptized with the Holy Ghost?
__________________
1 John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
What do you think about the love that a homosexual couple has (or claims to have) for each other? Is it (or can it be) really love, of the same type that a heterosexual couple has (or claims to have )?
Dude, I don't know. But my first thought is that "true love" as God sees and defines it would be a love that first and foremost desires to see the object of that love in harmony with God. If two people of the same gender truly "loved" each other beyond erotic or emotional love... I'm talking the "agape" kind of love... they'd encourage one another to draw nearer and nearer to God in increasing sanctification and holiness. Being a "homosexual couple" wouldn't be possible or part of the equasion. It's like a straight couple who are unmarried when they get saved. When "true love" begins to grow they will seek to please God by either getting married or ending the physical aspect of their relationship.
Without God no couple can have the truest form of agape love. Without God, any couple is only capable of emotional and erotic love. In this their love may be similar to straight couples who do not know God.
Well most of the homosexuals I know, their minds are pretty twisted up with undiagnosed mental disorders, drugs, the like. The people I know are miserable, aren't doing much to hide it...with that kind of anger and misery, how could they feel the same love? Again, this is just what I've seen from the people I personally know.
__________________
1 John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
Dude, I don't know. But my first thought is that "true love" as God sees and defines it would be a love that first and foremost desires to see the object of that love in harmony with God. If two people of the same gender truly "loved" each other beyond erotic or emotional love... I'm talking the "agape" kind of love... they'd encourage one another to draw nearer and nearer to God in increasing sanctification and holiness. Being a "homosexual couple" wouldn't be possible or part of the equasion. It's like a straight couple who are unmarried when they get saved. When "true love" begins to grow they will seek to please God by either getting married or ending the physical aspect of their relationship.
Without God no couple can have the truest form of agape love. Without God, any couple is only capable of emotional and erotic love. In this their love may be similar to straight couples who do not know God.
There are examples in the NT of unbelievers having "agape" love. Did you know that?
__________________
Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
Well most of the homosexuals I know, their minds are pretty twisted up with undiagnosed mental disorders, drugs, the like. The people I know are miserable, aren't doing much to hide it...with that kind of anger and misery, how could they feel the same love? Again, this is just what I've seen from the people I personally know.
)?
Linear Mode
